Back seat subs

[CFSapper]

Ok I'm finally getting around to desining my back seat sub set up.

After much consideration I would like to go ether 2 12's and a 10 or 2 12's and a 15 or just 2 12's(leaning more towards the 15 set up).

First off I want it to be known i know this is a lot of bass for a small car like the supra but I want to have something to show off until she can go faster.


now for the questions

1) What is a good quality thin mount sub?

2) What size amp would I need and or how many?

3) Would it be wise to get a battery designated for the sound system of the car, and if so what would be a good way to set this up?

while this is posted I'm still searching for these anwsers, but at the time of these post iv benn looking for 2 hours and found no real soild info.

Feel free to throw in any sugestions, and or ask any questions.

I listen to a look of Rock and Rap so quality and clearity is important to me and not just how lound it is.

Thx for putting up with my stupid noobish questions.

 

[theprodigy79]

Hey man,

Unfortunately you haven't found any solid info because your setup potential is wide open... Every question you have revolves around the answer to your first question... Which is "what setup should you go with?"... Further more, what is the EXACT equipment you plan to run...? There are so many models out there that suit so many purposes... You can power a single 10" sub from one series with 200 solid watts on a properly tuned, good amp in a well tuned enclosure and blow the hell out of people running three 15s on 1000 watts... This is not an exageration either (step into my Solara and I'll show you what a pair of properly powered 12"s can do, even in a boat of a car... I hit just over 148db with a MODERATELY powered dual 12" setup in my Celica coupe that I could drive down the street after the show and listen to any music clean and flawlessly)...

As for your setups mentioned, the ONLY one of the three setups that could REASONABLY get you good results is the dual 12 setup... If you get different sized subs, they may actually conflict with each other depending on how they are set up... There are ways around this (more complex crossover setups and "tuned" mounting locations), but I also think you're WAAAAAAAY over estimating your needs for this vehicle to be able to shatter your rear hatch window, loosen or warp body panels and cause some nasty leaks... let alone "show off"...

For your questions...

First, IMHO "thin mount" and "quality sub" contradict each other... In the past 12+ years I've been running in sound offs and other audio competitions I have NEVER heard a shallow mount that I liked... I do realize that technology is improving, and there are a few recent models that have come out that may stand potential (JL for example), but I'd still advise going for a good quality "regular sized" sub that is able to utilize modest air space...

Second, as I stated above, your amp of choice depends on what you wind up running...

Third, if you plan to run "serious" power, you're gonna have to do a LOT more than just a battery in these cars... You'll need a new alternator, battery and wiring, along with A LOT of sound deadening (no matter how loud your system is, you won't impress many people with your body paneling resonating and rattling). Your hatch is another issue... I don't know what you can do within reason to secure it down and keep it from flopping around... lots of duct tape?

Now, things to consider... If you want to be a "thumper", you can surely buy a crappy over-powered "burping" amp from makes such as Earthquake, Hi-Fonics, SPL, Power Acoustik etc... and a pair of high excursion 12" subs and hit 150+db in 1 second increments all day long... and your music will sound like horses ass... If you want quality power that makes your innards jiggle yet still sounds good when listening to your music you'll have to compromise (for simplicity, consider SQ and SPL to be polar opposits... while it's not really THAT extreme, generally the more the equipment is aimed at achieving high sound pressures, the less it's aimed at achieving sound quality, and vice versa...)

So answer my questions now...

What do you really want? What is your purpose with this? Is it ONLY to knock shit off your friends walls and annoy the hell out of people 3 blocks away, or do you want something loud and efficient? Keep in mind dude, you WILL hurt your car (and yourself) with a couple high powered 12"s over time (or even a single solid 10" or 12"), so don't understimate the power of a proper setup, even if it doesn't consist of 3 15" subs with huge power...

Also keep in mind that generally larger surface subwoofers have more trouble keeping up with quicker beats... 8"-12" subs are generally the best range for rock, while 10"-15" are generally the best for hip hop and other bassier music... So 12" would probably be a good compromise (I live by 12"s for that reason).

Anyhow dude, I think a pair of 12"s would be far more than sufficient to achieve your goals of extremely loud yet tolerable with rock and hip hop on a daily basis for this car... Hell, you could even go with a single JL 12W7 in a properly tuned ported enclosure and power it with a quality amp capable of around 1000W continuous at 4Ohms and save a bit of space, complexity and even power (over your original 3 sub concepts)... I GUARANTEE you will be more than happy.

Hit me with some more info and we'll figure things out...

-James

 

[CFSapper]

Ok ill try and anwser your questions

I'm looking for crisp, clear, quality sound. because of my new job money while not endless is substanisl so cost is not really a prob wosrt come to worst i save up and get them later.

It will be full fiberglass and my second time pissing around with friberglass but i will have a buddie of mine helping me to a point.

also looking for a clean look to some time in the future the hole hatch will be FG and will look very sharp and clean which was why i was kinda looking at the shallow mount. but after spending a little bit playin with mounting angles
7 inchs is about the most i can get.

I am trying to figure this out bu everytime I read more theres something that seam to contradict something i read earlyer and so on so you can see my delema.

thx in advance.



Robbie

 

[theprodigy79]

Cool man, I'll put a bit of thought into it and get back to you (it's late right now so my mind is shot).

I know what you mean about contradictions... It really isn't a simple subject, most people don't realize exactly how much is involved in a truly good system.

I'll get back to you tomorrow hopefully.

Peace,

-James

 

[CFSapper]

haha yah I didnt realize it was like 11:30 take your time this wont be happening till i get back from my training this summer but ill start picking up some of the stuff i need after i get my trnny fixed


thx,




Robbie

 

[theprodigy79]

haha yah I didnt realize it was like 11:30 take your time this wont be happening till i get back from my training this summer but ill start picking up some of the stuff i need after i get my trnny fixed


thx,




Robbie

Hahaha I'm east coast bro, so it's 3am here

 

[CFSapper]

oh dam:aigo:

 

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

Only 7"?? I'm doing close to the same thing and I have almost 11" to work with depth wise...

Anywho, I think people over hype FG. It's a tool to get a curve; nothing else. I'm building my enclosure from wood, then throwing a layer of resin over it so that it can be painted nicely, but not full fiberglass.

Next, I belive prodidy already said it but, shallow mount subs usally sacrifice sound to gain space.

Lastly, as prodigy also said, instead of spending money on 3 average subs, pick up 1 or 2 quality subs. While JL's w7's are extremely loud and pretty decent on the SQ side, they're overpriced. Check out Image Dynamics, Treo, MMATS, etc...Wherever prodigy got off saying that HiFonics doesn't make quality amps I don't know, but he's trippin. Hifonics, USamps, etc... are all good amps.

Depending on the amount of power you're planning to run, I think you'll be fine just upgrading your batt, alternator, and new cables from your alt to battery, battery to ground, and your main batt feed to the car. The alternator is nearly a must. If you can find/afford a HO alternator, more power to ya, if not, MR2 it up. A second battery is no where near needed for what it sounds like you plan to run.

PS--don't short-change yourself when you run the power wire. Do yourself a favor and run 1/0 AWG wire to the rear of the car with a distrobution block. Even if you only run 1 amp for now, it will save you a MAJOR headache in the future to only have to run a 14" piece of wire from the d-block to the new amp instead of a new run of power wire.

 

[dugums]

I agree with the post above - choose quality over quantity. You would be surprised how easy it is to get nice, full bass in the car.

You mentioned you wanted crisp, clear bass. A high quality 10" is going to do a lot for you if you have it in the proper size ported box. This will be especially true if you don't have competition components throughout the rest of the car. Properly set up, a hq 10" can cover quite a range. High quality does not always mean high $$ either, you can usually find some great 10" or 12" subs very cheap if you're not necessarily stuck on getting a slick-looking speaker.

Let me know if you're leaning in that direction, and I can give you some specific speaker recommendations.

 

[theprodigy79]

For clarification, the 12W7 was an extreme I was using to make a point. There are many subs that are far more cost effective and give you the same, if not better SQ/SPL. I usually don't endorse JL products, except for their / series amp line-up just because it has proven itself to me many times over and can be had for very reasonable amounts... Many other JL products are over-hyped and over-priced.

As for Hi-Fonics; obviously it's my opinion, but I haven't heard a quality "SQ" Hi-Fonics amp since the early '90s... Most of their stuff as of current seems to be aimed toward either the entry level thumper market or the high "peak" power SPL market... While some of their SPL amps are excellent, and nearly unbeatable for their purpose, I prefer sound quality AND power. When I stated they were "crappy" amplifiers, I was solely referring to their SQ (and I doubt very many people who run true SQ setups will challenge that)...

 

[theprodigy79]

BTW, TTL, where's that "e-cookie" ya said you'd give me :icon_razz

 

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

e-cookie? When did I say this?

I definately don't recommend a ported box for SQ either. While a sealed box will be quieter and less efficient, they give a MUCH flatter response when compared to a ported box. I HATE ported boxes personally.

 

[CFSapper]

11inch's how the fuck did you get 11inch's?????

 

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

My box is designed to fill the whole of the rear seat. each cube will be 1.15 ft3 after driver displacement. The subs will sit angled upward facing the hatch window. Top of the box is (IIRC) 10.5" deep and the bottom is around 14".

I have a rough sketch up of it somewhere...I'll try to find it when I get home tonight.

 

[sweetlikechutny]

i wanna see this sketch...

 

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

lol i had forgotten about this! I'll try to scan the drawring up tonight! =)

 

[89TurboPC]

Actually, if you flip the spare tires and modify the bolt, you can have a very good size box without sacrifying space. I'll do it some day.

 

[speed]

1) What is a good quality thin mount sub?
2) What size amp would I need and or how many?
3) Would it be wise to get a battery designated for the sound system of the car, and if so what would be a good way to set this up?

Before I answer these, I would advise on NOT getting a 15" sub. First off, they won't be shallow, and second, they won't be as tight as a smaller sub. Granted, subwoofer tech has come a LONG way in the past few years... but for listening to rock, IMO a 15 is still too big. the 12" i have now hits as fast as the 8s i did 6 years ago. IMO a 12 is the perfect size woofer.

1) Depends on your budget, and how much room you have to work with. "True" shallow mount subs require less than 4-5 inches, but as I skimmed this thread I saw somewhere that you had 11", which is plenty for a conventional subwoofer. Are you looking to spend under $100, under 200, under 300?

2) you'll want one amp, a "mono" or "monoblock". You can get a 2 channel amp, but monoblock amps are specifically designed for subwoofer applications. The choosing of the amp depends totally on what subwoofer you get.

3) Most modern batteries will do just fine for a casual subwoofer system. If you run more than 600wrms, you'll want to look into a deep cycle, or dual battery setup, but anything less than that and your battery should be just fine. Areas of concern should rather be your alternator and your grounding. Make sure your alternator is pumping out good amperage, and you should probably upgrade your battery, engine, and alternator ground wires to at least 4ga wire. This is called the "Big 3." And before you ask, capacitors are completely useless and are a waste of money. Any improvement that might be noticed has more to do with the upgraded wiring than the actual capacitor.

So you need to decide:
a) how much room you have to work with
b) how much you want to spend
c) how loud you want (you can say 'decently loud' or 'makes my intestines hurt loud', I'll help you past that

For example, I have in my supra, stock alternator, run of the mill battery, and 2ga grounds. I'm using a Hifonics 500wrms @4ohm mono amp, hooked up to an Elemental Designs 12 ov2 (rated at 600wrms, but its only getting the 500), and its enough to shake every fucking thing in my car, yet it also plays dragonforce without skipping a beat. (though if the car is idling or not running, it drains the battery in about 30min). This setup ran me about 450-500 (minus cost of supplies- wire, wood, etc).

Hope that helps

 

[sweetlikechutny]

I think I might start on the rear seat delete as well. I'm thinking of glassing in my 2 AA avalanche 12's running them off 1800rms.

 

[Turbo. Targa. Life.]

That was me that has 11", not him. I'll be running 2 12" TREO SSi's with 3 zapco 7501's here real soon One for each sub and one for my components. Gotta love the versatillity of those damn 7501's!!