Are any of you running alternative fuels in your Supras? I've spent the better half of an hour doing back searches on this site and couldn't find any hits. So if there are any other threads about flex fuel, I appologize if any of the following questions and info have been repeated. I didn't see anything so far.
Anyway...
I am considering converting my '88 GTE over to E-85. Several people that I know run E-85 in their vehicles. None of them are 7M, 1G, 1UZ or JZ powered, but I have seen increase in horsepower, increase in torque and increasingly lower EGT numbers on a number of other charged and N/A cars that have run E-85, on friends cars here in town. I couldn't believe the difference it made in my friends Eaton charged 3.8L in his GTP.
I am also a member of a Mopar forum and a lot of the 2.2T and 2.4T SRT guys swear by the stuff. It hurts your MPG/KPG numbers, but only because the engine physically goes through more fluid, but because it's significantly cheaper, your $PG ratio goes to your benefit over gasoline, aside from many other benefits that help the engine and the rest of the fuel/ exhaust system.
This is because E-85 has a lower BTU rating than just gasoline and burns much cleaner than gasoline. It acutally cleans and cools your fuel system, so you have to watch your fuel filter in a vehicle that had gasoline run in it.
The BTUs are much to the same that pure alcohol has. The reason that alcohol isn't sold at fuel stations is because it's dangerous. It burns so clean that you can't even see it burn most of the time, due to it's low BTU rating.
As I understand it, the engine will run lean using E-85 with the same A/F measurements used for gasoline.
Paxton and Pro-Charger both actually recommend the use of E-85 in boosted engines, due to the lower EGT levels and higher 102 min. octane that E-85 has. I would imagine that a turbocharged engine would benefit even more from having lower EGT and engine temperatures in general, especially one that is intercooled. And because it burns cleaner and more efficiently than gasoline, you see less cylinder wash as well, which I would think to be critical on a turbocharged engine.
I know that the GM guys just put an 8amp resistor in one of the lines for the air temp sensor, to alter the signal sent to the ECU, making it think that the engine is running cooler, so it increases the fuel in A/F ratio to compensate for the leaner running fuel. This appearantly doesn't trigger the OBDII system in any way.
The kits that I see sold are nothing more than some kind of relay that goes between the injectors and harness, simply increasing the span of each injector pulse. I have converted some of my older carbureted vehicles over to E-85 and all I had to do was go one or two steps up in jet/rod size and richen the idle mixture. I was also able to advance the initial timing a couple of degrees due to the added octane over regular, mid-grade and even most premium fuels.
I have also seen some SRT4 Neons and a few older 2.2 Omnis running E-85 with water injection, which I thought would be nice to do too. I am familiar with how water injection works, but for the time being, I'm just looking for some lower EGT numbers, a few more ponies and maybe some torque, as well as keeping my wallet a little fatter after leaving the gas station. hahaha...
I have been told that the economics of going all E-85 over gasoline isn't entirely bulletproof on a massive scale and the reasons why, but I still think for individuals looking into monkeying around in their garage with their toys, it can provide a lot of benefits, especially on a boosted engine.
So what are your thoughts? I'd love to hear from anyone running this stuff in their Toyota powerplants, along with what modifications they did in order to change the A/F ratio slightly richer to run it properly.
I think it would be rad to have a flex fuel Supra at the flip of a switch, if at all possible. If nothing else, at least be able to run the distilled corn in my tank for the benefit of the engine over conventional gasoline.
Check these clips out-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkHOpVZXOjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1_3rfK3yiY
Just so you know, when he's speaking about the valves and seats, he's talking about a hardened exhaust valve seat for unleadded fuel. He's getting away with making this comparison, because if you listen carefully at what was not being said, he never specified who he was addressing in comparison and some of the people who he may adressing, may in fact be interested in converting their pre-unleadded fuel cars over to E-85. The seats corrode because you can't run unleadded without hardened seats that almost all cars have now. Tricky!
This is the follow up video-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-MNQFlRilE
Mind you, this is with absolutely no compensation to run the engine richer, whatsoever, like it's supposed to be (which is what he is getting at towards the end of the video).
Thanks for any input or thoughts!
Dave
Anyway...
I am considering converting my '88 GTE over to E-85. Several people that I know run E-85 in their vehicles. None of them are 7M, 1G, 1UZ or JZ powered, but I have seen increase in horsepower, increase in torque and increasingly lower EGT numbers on a number of other charged and N/A cars that have run E-85, on friends cars here in town. I couldn't believe the difference it made in my friends Eaton charged 3.8L in his GTP.
I am also a member of a Mopar forum and a lot of the 2.2T and 2.4T SRT guys swear by the stuff. It hurts your MPG/KPG numbers, but only because the engine physically goes through more fluid, but because it's significantly cheaper, your $PG ratio goes to your benefit over gasoline, aside from many other benefits that help the engine and the rest of the fuel/ exhaust system.
This is because E-85 has a lower BTU rating than just gasoline and burns much cleaner than gasoline. It acutally cleans and cools your fuel system, so you have to watch your fuel filter in a vehicle that had gasoline run in it.
The BTUs are much to the same that pure alcohol has. The reason that alcohol isn't sold at fuel stations is because it's dangerous. It burns so clean that you can't even see it burn most of the time, due to it's low BTU rating.
As I understand it, the engine will run lean using E-85 with the same A/F measurements used for gasoline.
Paxton and Pro-Charger both actually recommend the use of E-85 in boosted engines, due to the lower EGT levels and higher 102 min. octane that E-85 has. I would imagine that a turbocharged engine would benefit even more from having lower EGT and engine temperatures in general, especially one that is intercooled. And because it burns cleaner and more efficiently than gasoline, you see less cylinder wash as well, which I would think to be critical on a turbocharged engine.
I know that the GM guys just put an 8amp resistor in one of the lines for the air temp sensor, to alter the signal sent to the ECU, making it think that the engine is running cooler, so it increases the fuel in A/F ratio to compensate for the leaner running fuel. This appearantly doesn't trigger the OBDII system in any way.
The kits that I see sold are nothing more than some kind of relay that goes between the injectors and harness, simply increasing the span of each injector pulse. I have converted some of my older carbureted vehicles over to E-85 and all I had to do was go one or two steps up in jet/rod size and richen the idle mixture. I was also able to advance the initial timing a couple of degrees due to the added octane over regular, mid-grade and even most premium fuels.
I have also seen some SRT4 Neons and a few older 2.2 Omnis running E-85 with water injection, which I thought would be nice to do too. I am familiar with how water injection works, but for the time being, I'm just looking for some lower EGT numbers, a few more ponies and maybe some torque, as well as keeping my wallet a little fatter after leaving the gas station. hahaha...
I have been told that the economics of going all E-85 over gasoline isn't entirely bulletproof on a massive scale and the reasons why, but I still think for individuals looking into monkeying around in their garage with their toys, it can provide a lot of benefits, especially on a boosted engine.
So what are your thoughts? I'd love to hear from anyone running this stuff in their Toyota powerplants, along with what modifications they did in order to change the A/F ratio slightly richer to run it properly.
I think it would be rad to have a flex fuel Supra at the flip of a switch, if at all possible. If nothing else, at least be able to run the distilled corn in my tank for the benefit of the engine over conventional gasoline.
Check these clips out-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkHOpVZXOjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1_3rfK3yiY
Just so you know, when he's speaking about the valves and seats, he's talking about a hardened exhaust valve seat for unleadded fuel. He's getting away with making this comparison, because if you listen carefully at what was not being said, he never specified who he was addressing in comparison and some of the people who he may adressing, may in fact be interested in converting their pre-unleadded fuel cars over to E-85. The seats corrode because you can't run unleadded without hardened seats that almost all cars have now. Tricky!
This is the follow up video-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-MNQFlRilE
Mind you, this is with absolutely no compensation to run the engine richer, whatsoever, like it's supposed to be (which is what he is getting at towards the end of the video).
Thanks for any input or thoughts!
Dave
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