Simple.
Its another option, different from the norm.
You appear to really hate the idea, which is fine.
As I said, I couldn't care less about your setup. But you continued to bring the focus of the thread to your setup and figuring you're looking for input on it or something I added it. I guess it is my fault that I didn't make that point clear in my original post, and my follow up wasn't definitively decisive on the intentions.
As mentioned before I work based of measurements OR modeling.
In this case the pressure drop across the full flow system is simply based off Darcy–Weisbach equation.
With the end goal to maximize oil pressure to the engine, since the 7M is already notorious for oiling issues.
Please join the conversation and bring some data to the table.
I have yet to see anyone log data related to the Δ drop across any oil system.
If you know of this data please link to it!
I have already mentioned to Pi that I will be setting up 2 pressure transducers to measure the pressure loss through my system.
Once I get the ms3pro set up and running I can do this, or use some of the data logging equipment I use at work to take it early. Depends on how much free time is available.
The measurement and calculation are very simple.
- Take oil pressure at the outlet from the oil pump @ the oil filter housing or adapter on the passenger side of the engine.
- Take oil pressure at the stock oil pressure sender location.
- Calculate the delta between the 2 and there you have the pressure drop across whatever system is used.
If someone else running a full flow system can take the same measurements, then real data can be compared and not have to rely on modeling and calculations.
That would be interesting data to have, but has little impact outside of your specific setup. Comparing to another persons readings (even at the same spots) leads to too many variables to make the data valuable.
The values would have to be conducted with similar conditions over the desired points only. So, through the Lines, remote filter and cooler setup themselves and through the stock cooler itself. Only then can we have a direct comparison.
There isn't anything scary about a full flow system...
I ran that system in my own vehicle for years, but now have reached a point where my goals have changed.
Its just risk assessment, everyone has their own levels of what they are willing to accept, nothing wrong with that.
Exactly as I stated.
A few psi of pumping losses IS important to me, I feel like I am talking to a wall here. Accept that and move on.
If other builds nitpick over every ounce of weight savings or rebuild to exact OEM standards bar none, then ffs I can have my own goals as well.
Which is why I arrived at the conclusion that I did with my previous post.
I am not preventing anyone from bringing their ideas to the table.
I am encouraging MORE ideas to come to the table, so lets hear them, debate them.
Have an intelligent conversation and back it up with data.
Data isn't necessary to be included in the conversation, otherwise, again, I don't see why you're discussing your system here without any data?
To get the thread back on topic, I'll restate my original post.
Based on your Pro/Con list (which you stated is Stock vs Full Flow) my counter to the Pressure Drop through the lines Con is that its negligible at most.
Pi it would be tough to accurately answer that question.
I do not know the actual gallons per minute the 7M engine oil pumps through the system.
Someone could set up a test stand and spin the pump under pressure to measure the flow output.
But the chances of someone actually doing that are slim to none.
To get a rough estimate:
Here is a nice chart showing pressure drop values per 10 feet of line.
Most people use dash -8 or 1/2" ID lines, so use that column.
Pressure drop values listed here are calculated at 100°F temperature for petroleum based oil.
This chart only accounts for the line itself, not any fittings in the system.
http://pressureconnections.com/customer/prcoco/customerpages/literature/Hose_Pressure_Drop_Chart.pdf
My best guess for flow rates on this engine would be:
5 GPM @ 3,000 RPM
10 GPM @ 6,000 RPM
We can use the quoted post to derive data to make you happy.
-At idle, 750rpm, lets guess 2gpm, with -8 lines. So over 10 feet there is no data listed for pressure loss.... but lest say .1 psi with 10 psi oil pressure is 1%, negligible.
-At 3000 rpms, 5gpm, with -8 again. We're looking at 4.5 psi pressure loss.
-At 6000 rpms, 10gpm, with -8 again, were looking at 15 psi pressure loss.
So at idle, we've established the pressure loss is negligible.
At 3000 rpms, a pressure loss of 4.5 psi, with say a stock system at 40 psi, the delta is >10% and is not negligible. So, I guess I'll Disclaimer this part.
This theory is derived from anecdotal evidence and various posts on the forum on the subject. the stock oil cooler seems to start bleeding off pressure around that 40 psi mark, so there is an unmeasured pressure loss from the Stock oil cooler. Without the stock oil cooler (And its bleeding) pressure would be higher. I would say 10 psi higher, negating any pressure loss through the lines, and having an overall increase of pressure vs the stock system.
Same goes for 6000 rpms with even more pressure gained vs the stock system.
Now for my second statement, I dont think this was disputed, so I'll just restate it.
The upgraded oil feed tube and removable of the banjo bolt would further increase the net positive pressure gain at all data points and probably eliminate the pressure loss at idle all together.
I hope this clears up any misunderstanding between Piratetip and I on my intentions on my contributions to the thread. I would love to see his insight (and others) on my theories I have laid out here rebutting the CON listed for pressure loss. While I do agree it is a legitimate con with measurable loss, the overall benefit between the two systems negate any of the pressure loss thus eliminating the con in practice. Again we do not have hard data, but we can intelligently discuss the theory. But again until we have hard data it'll always be a theory.
