7mgte ignition timing map (opinions?)

[BLACKCAT]

Here is what my timing map is currently set at:

Idle 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000
+17 +22 +27 +29 +29 +30 +30 +30 +31 +32 +32 +32 +30 +30

Maximum torque is around 4500, soft rev cut at 6500 & hard at 7000.

Auto 7mgte, CT26 57 trim max 14psi, 3" exhaust from turbo back, BC264 cams, Microtech ecu & shift kitted auto.

What do you guys think of it & any ideas to improve torque between 4-6000?

 

[ma71supraturbo]

Loadpoints would help. What you posted isn't a timing map -- its a timing line...

 

[BLACKCAT]

Loadpoints?
The ecu that I have is pretty old (MT-8) & I cannot see anything resembling loadpoints on it.:aigo:

 

[IJ.]

Should be at least 5 loadpoints from vacuum to boost, so you would have 5 lines of timing as it needs to pull timing on boost.

Modern ECU's have many more X by Y cells.
(MoTeC 100 series is 55x35)

 

[BLACKCAT]

Found this:

0" 0
5" +5
10" +7
15" +10
20" +10
25" +10

Idle 2psi 4psi 6psi 8psi 10psi 14psi 16psi 18psi 20psi
+5 -5 -10 -17 -20 -20 -12 -12 -14 -15

My boost cut is set at 15psi.

 

[IJ.]

Very unusual that it's pulling less timing as boost rises?

 

[BLACKCAT]

Seems strange to me as well thats why I thaught of putting up the figures.
From what little I understand about turbo engines I thaught it should be reducing timing by around 2 degrees per 1 psi boost increase?

 

[IJ.]

Yep it should decrease with boost but it's one of those things that really needs to be set on the dyno to get the most out of the engine safely.

 

[BLACKCAT]

Thanks for the great info, as always, & I will book it in for a proper dyno tune.
Will be interesting to see the amended numbers.

 

[IJ.]

I always found a point around Tq peak where it would blow out the spark and adding in some timing would help get over it.

 

[Mr. Y]

Ian, sorry for small offtopic, but I got a question... How much do you advance after peak TQ till redline?

PS: it would be great to see some realy dyno-tuned cell-by-cell 7M timing maps (not built using rule of thumb like mine)...

 

[TurboStreetCar]

This is one topic i was always curious about, post up some maps people!

 

[IJ.]

Ian, sorry for small offtopic, but I got a question... How much do you advance after peak TQ till redline?

PS: it would be great to see some realy dyno-tuned cell-by-cell 7M timing maps (not built using rule of thumb like mine)...

This isn't a current map but is typical of what we ended up with. (current maps are all in the laptop I had to reimage this PC)

 

[Mr. Y]

Thank you, Ian. But why don't you advance ign after peak TQ point much? I've found (when dyno tuned friends 2JZ) that more timing at hight RPM helps to smooth torque curve (it falls not so fast). Never dyno tuned 7M, is it different at that aspect?

 

[IJ.]

It was done that way to give me a safety margin in case I got bad fuel in the middle of nowhere, the car was making as much power as I could hook up on street tires so I wasn't chasing any more.

 

[mk3ukr]

map with alky injection, not dyno tuned

 

[Mr. Y]

Vladimir, your ign timing map at boost area looks too conservative for me (even for pump gas). You definatelly have a lot of power left there...

 

[mk3ukr]

Vladimir, your ign timing map at boost area looks too conservative for me (even for pump gas). You definatelly have a lot of power left there...

It's pointless to try to compare and imitate ignition timing maps, even for the same type of engine. There are too many factors affecting ignition timing requirements and engine which requires LESS timing will always beat engine which requires MORE timing. Just to mention few things in my motor which call for less timing advance - long duration 272deg cams, 4" exhaust, good intake manifold, ~1.0mm squish, 12.0-12.5 AFR on boost.
Motors running short duration cams, restrictive exhaust and intake manifold (less VE), thick as a brick HG and rich 11.0 AFR will require more timing but will make less power

 

[ma71supraturbo]

It's not often that you come across a decent tech thread on SF, but I think this is pretty good reading:

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=520811