maftpro is working

[drjonez]

it really depends on how far you plan on going with the car and what YOU want to do. already got other stuff? it's probably easier to just use it. want to get rid of 239573475 separate devices? the pro might be a better choice. ultimately, it's your decision.....figure out what's right for you and go that route....

FYI- the ability to monitor timing is HUGE. a great asset in the tuning process....

 

[hottscennessey]

I'm just about ready to order but i'm hesitant since malloynx is having problems, and as of now we have the exact same upgrades (except maftpro). Did you get malloynx straight yet Dr? Or malloynx, if you think its a good product, and its just something simple, then i'm ready to purchase. thanks guys.

 

[rakkasan]

it really depends on how far you plan on going with the car and what YOU want to do. already got other stuff? it's probably easier to just use it. want to get rid of 239573475 separate devices? the pro might be a better choice. ultimately, it's your decision.....figure out what's right for you and go that route....

FYI- the ability to monitor timing is HUGE. a great asset in the tuning process....

Is the timing control a pipe dream or is there a good possibility that it will be a feature in the future?

 

[drjonez]

I'm just about ready to order but i'm hesitant since malloynx is having problems, and as of now we have the exact same upgrades (except maftpro). Did you get malloynx straight yet Dr? Or malloynx, if you think its a good product, and its just something simple, then i'm ready to purchase. thanks guys.

the important thing to realize is that the unknown in every install is the person installing/tuning the device. this holds true for ANY device- SAFC/SAFR/eman/EMS/etc. we've done the best we can working with malloynx, ultimately it's up to him to make his setup work (he has a variety of things going on- MAFT pro, meth injection, etc. the multiple items makes for difficult tuning...).

the MAFT pro has been in my car and working just fine for a few months now...

 

[drjonez]

Is the timing control a pipe dream or is there a good possibility that it will be a feature in the future?

i wouldn't call it a pipe dream. the limiting factor is whether or not we can make the existing hardware do what we want it to....

the good news is that we'll be trying out the timing monitor next week. =)

 

[IHI-RHC7]

Ok Adam,
Here goes.
I am running the typical MAFT, 3" MAF, AVC-R, S-AFC II combo. It runs great.
With full fuel control from MAFT-pro, the TCCS is still trying to make the car run stoich under closed loop, "read most of the time." Does the MAFT pro have the capability to send the TCCS a fake o2 signal to trick the ecu into not constantly playing with the fuel curve?
If we could clamp the narrow band lambda, then TCCS ecu would be in open loop mode, and would let the MAFT-pro do what it wants.
How's that intake manifold doing?
I'm in school persueing my ME degree at the moment, but eventually I'll buy this product, for now, I'm still pushing the MAFT for those that don't need the extra features. I wish I had waited, but I didn't so now I'm stuck with the second best piggy back. No harm done.
I think you called the EMS a piece of junk... explain.. now.

Note that personally I use the AEM EMS….too bad it’s a piece of junk.

Anyway, I think that is the only thing I see that is a conflict. Highway cruising and part throttle is nearly impossible to tune, because the TCCS just sits there playing with the fuel. If the TCCS thought that fuel was stoich at all times, then, with a wideband and EGT, one could bend the TCCS to their will.
Just my $.0089

 

[drjonez]

Ok Adam,
Here goes.
I am running the typical MAFT, 3" MAF, AVC-R, S-AFC II combo. It runs great.
With full fuel control from MAFT-pro, the TCCS is still trying to make the car run stoich under closed loop, "read most of the time." Does the MAFT pro have the capability to send the TCCS a fake o2 signal to trick the ecu into not constantly playing with the fuel curve? If we could clamp the narrow band lambda, then TCCS ecu would be in open loop mode, and would let the MAFT-pro do what it wants....

what up? the problems you're describing apply to ANY piggy-back. the thing you really need to pay close attention to is Vf- log it and see what the TCCS is wanting to do, then make corrections to make it happy. this should clear up MOST of the issues....you'll probably never kill them all, that's just the nature of the beast.

nope, the MAFT pro does not have an O2 sensor clamp/simulator.

How's that intake manifold doing?

quite well really....

I'm in school persueing my ME degree at the moment, but eventually I'll buy this product, for now, I'm still pushing the MAFT for those that don't need the extra features. I wish I had waited, but I didn't so now I'm stuck with the second best piggy back. No harm done.
I think you called the EMS a piece of junk... explain.. now.

have fun in engineering school....it's a riot! :nono:

yea, the AEM EMS is a piece of junk. i've had it for over a year and just finally seem to have sorted out a misfire problem with it. from what i can tell, it doesn't play well with SOME 7M-GTE ignitors....you just have to find the right one....unfortuantely, i went through FIVE of them to figure that out....so i'm less than happy....therefore it's a piece of junk.

Anyway, I think that is the only thing I see that is a conflict. Highway cruising and part throttle is nearly impossible to tune, because the TCCS just sits there playing with the fuel. If the TCCS thought that fuel was stoich at all times, then, with a wideband and EGT, one could bend the TCCS to their will.
Just my $.0089

agreed, but then you lose all benefits to close loop operation, see above....

 

[turbobob]

curious what the side effects would be, other than the trouble code, of just disconnecting the O2 sensor........?

Then you could tune the car open loop, using the wideband as your feedback.

I have contemplated adding a part throttle closed loop function to the Pro, using the wideband as feedback. The only obstacle is the stock ECU working against you, which unplugging the stock O2 may accomplish....

Bob

 

[drjonez]

unplug the O2 and you get a code on '89+ ECUs. on both versions you go full rich....though i suppose you could tune that out.

 

[lagged]

if you unplugged the o2 sensor wouldnt you lose your timing advance?

 

[drjonez]

if you unplugged the o2 sensor wouldnt you lose your timing advance?

i BELIEVE so.....no hard data.

 

[IHI-RHC7]

Thanks for the replies and the hard work, Doc.
I've had terrible times with the ignition of the ems as well. and I've used everything from stock coils to ls1 coils, to cbr600-f4i coils. The best tune I found was with the cdi firing the cbr coilsticks. Playing around with coil factor was the thing that really helped with the miss. I've never ran the ems with the stock ignitor...
Back to MAFt pro.
When you get the timing moniter functioning, you might clip the sensor wire from the stock o2 sensor, but leave the heater connected, or replace it with an appropriate resistor so the ecu thinks it is still there. The code is only because it doesn't see a load on the heater circuit, so in theory, you should be able to moniter timing in a pre or post 89 ecu and pull the o2 sensor and see what it does. I would be very interested to see the TCCS would do without the o2 input.
I fully agree that you face these issues with all piggy backs, and if killing the o2 signal makes the tccs go full rich, or stay where it is, etc... That would be very useful info indeed. I'm glad my crumby mani is still serving you well. Someday I'll make another one...

 

[89Turbo]

OMG this is so confusing but from what i have read i want one but do you think a regular mechanic could install/tune this for me, or is it to new or what?
BTW hes a damn good mechanic he's just not Supra specific and i would go to a Supra specific mechanic but they are 3x the cost per hour install.

correct me if im wrong but buying this setup prevents me from have to buy: SAFC, Boost Controller, Lexus AFM, Wideband O2.......... and even when i go to bigger injectors will i still be able to pull enough air without the Lex AFM? and what EXACTLY am i going to need off that list to basically do what a Lex AFM, injector, SAFC, and boost controller setup would do and whats the total cost. also thank you soooo much Dr.Jonez u have to be the smartest Supra person i know.

 

[outofstep]

correct me if im wrong but buying this setup prevents me from have to buy: SAFC, Boost Controller, Lexus AFM, Wideband O2..........

No. You'll want a wideband O2 no matter what type of managment you go with. So you'll still want to pick it up.

 

[drjonez]

...Back to MAFt pro.
When you get the timing moniter functioning, you might clip the sensor wire from the stock o2 sensor, but leave the heater connected, or replace it with an appropriate resistor so the ecu thinks it is still there. The code is only because it doesn't see a load on the heater circuit, so in theory, you should be able to moniter timing in a pre or post 89 ecu and pull the o2 sensor and see what it does. I would be very interested to see the TCCS would do without the o2 input.
I fully agree that you face these issues with all piggy backs, and if killing the o2 signal makes the tccs go full rich, or stay where it is, etc... That would be very useful info indeed. I'm glad my crumby mani is still serving you well. Someday I'll make another one...

yeah, once the timing monitor is operational, i plan on doing a lot of logging....just for my own interest.

the '89+ ECU will detect improper O2 sensor performance:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/fi/FI_026.html

personally, i'm guessing the TCCS is going to go full limp w/o the O2 sensor- more fuel, decreased advance, etc.

 

[drjonez]

OMG this is so confusing but from what i have read i want one but do you think a regular mechanic could install/tune this for me, or is it to new or what?
BTW hes a damn good mechanic he's just not Supra specific and i would go to a Supra specific mechanic but they are 3x the cost per hour install...

what's confusing? take a look @ my FAQ, maftpro.com and this discussion....that should cover 95% of your questions.

as for installer, i would find a local speed shop you can trust. a regular mechanic MIGHT be up to it, but they typically look down on aftermarket devices...

...correct me if im wrong but buying this setup prevents me from have to buy: SAFC, Boost Controller, Lexus AFM, Wideband O2.......... and even when i go to bigger injectors will i still be able to pull enough air without the Lex AFM? and what EXACTLY am i going to need off that list to basically do what a Lex AFM, injector, SAFC, and boost controller setup would do and whats the total cost. also thank you soooo much Dr.Jonez u have to be the smartest Supra person i know.

as out said, you still need a WB. the MAFT pro accepts the 0-5V input from a WB controller and logs it as well as uses it for the A/F tracking.

if you go speed/density, your intake size is only limited by the size of a filter you can fit on there....

as for what parts you need, it depends on what you want to do. please read the FAQ on mkiiitech.com as i have tried to cover this there....

 

[yannis-supras]

Doc it's decision time, I've heard some dubious stuff the last few days. The main problem is that no one has managed to integrate and run the Maft-pro smoothly on the 7mgte yet. I know you said that your setup has been working fine for quite some time now and that in many ways you preffer it to your AEM EMS but to be honest you have all the means, knowledge and experience to set this thing up right or any other piggybag/standalone for this matter. What do we people do that don't have your expertise, this is the question! Especially myself that live in Greece and supras (and any engine over 2 liters) is an unknown area to most technicians.
Would it be possible to have a basic (even more advanced than basic prefferably) proggramming/setup configuration made by you based on my current engine configuration so that I could have the reassurance that I could make this work for me? And by that I mean setup suggestions and guidelines based on the mods on my car.
What I wish to think of my final setup will be is:
Twin T3 50s on a Greddy twin exhaust mani copy
4" I/C piping hot side
28"x12"x4" intercooler
3" I/C piping cold side
Q45 throttle body
Ron Ramirez small front intake manifold
550's, walbro, afpr
twin independent 3" downpipes/ exhausts - no cats
avcr
15-20 psi boost

Obviously if you are actually able to pre-figure the suggested programming guidlines I can provide any other information you might need.

 

[drjonez]

Doc it's decision time, I've heard some dubious stuff the last few days. The main problem is that no one has managed to integrate and run the Maft-pro smoothly on the 7mgte yet. I know you said that your setup has been working fine for quite some time now and that in many ways you preffer it to your AEM EMS but to be honest you have all the means, knowledge and experience to set this thing up right or any other piggybag/standalone for this matter. What do we people do that don't have your expertise, this is the question! Especially myself that live in Greece and supras (and any engine over 2 liters) is an unknown area to most technicians.
Would it be possible to have a basic (even more advanced than basic prefferably) proggramming/setup configuration made by you based on my current engine configuration so that I could have the reassurance that I could make this work for me? And by that I mean setup suggestions and guidelines based on the mods on my car.
What I wish to think of my final setup will be is:
Twin T3 50s on a Greddy twin exhaust mani copy
4" I/C piping hot side
28"x12"x4" intercooler
3" I/C piping cold side
Q45 throttle body
Ron Ramirez small front intake manifold
550's, walbro, afpr
twin independent 3" downpipes/ exhausts - no cats
avcr
15-20 psi boost

Obviously if you are actually able to pre-figure the suggested programming guidlines I can provide any other information you might need.

well, what you are hearing are standard teething problems for any new system being used by new users....take read of the AEM forums sometime, you will see far worse things there.

as with any tuning device, the quality of its performance is based on the effort put into tuning it....and ultimately that falls into the hands of the user. my advice is to familarize yourself with ALL of the aspects of whatever device you decide to use (SAFC, SAFC, MAFT pro, eman, AEM, motec, etc.) and then make SMALL steps- start out tuning @ idle, see what changes do what to the engine....then move onto some WOT runs @ min boost, do the same thing- make small changes and see what they do. after you've done this for a while you will develop a better understanding of how everything works together....once you're comfortable, you should move onto upping the boost and tuning for power.

wow. that's quite the setup you have! i am not comfortable "remote tuning"- i.e. sending you a MAFT pro with a "guesstimate" map. i have seen this done many times and it doesn't end well....

 

[yannis-supras]

well, what you are hearing are standard teething problems for any new system being used by new users....take read of the AEM forums sometime, you will see far worse things there.

If that's all it is then let's hope that these initial issues will be sorted soon.

as with any tuning device, the quality of its performance is based on the effort put into tuning it....and ultimately that falls into the hands of the user. my advice is to familarize yourself with ALL of the aspects of whatever device you decide to use (SAFC, SAFC, MAFT pro, eman, AEM, motec, etc.) and then make SMALL steps- start out tuning @ idle, see what changes do what to the engine....then move onto some WOT runs @ min boost, do the same thing- make small changes and see what they do. after you've done this for a while you will develop a better understanding of how everything works together....once you're comfortable, you should move onto upping the boost and tuning for power.

Hmm...so basically you're saying that I should aquire the knowledge and try to do this myself. To be honest i'm not confident in messing with tuning in that high level.
I'm no expert you see, just your everyday supramaniac that gathers information in the forums and has an average theoretical perception, nothing more.

i am not comfortable "remote tuning"- i.e. sending you a MAFT pro with a "guesstimate" map. i have seen this done many times and it doesn't end well....

I'm telling you I would be very comfortable with it, at least I'd have a startline. Better than trying to built up the whole configuration by myself. Doc you've got to realize that what may seem to you as an average, rational way of doing things might be the novice's nightmare :icon_conf :dunno:

 

[suprasport91]

alright so i have read this article and i am a bit confused, my car is in great running condition, all the hoses are new i have replaced all vacuum lines and full IC Pipes (cooleze), and runnign a full 3" exhaust from headers down ( intkae too), now i am thinking about going power as what i have done does not do too much, i am interested in rasing boost, i have sufficient funds for this item but i dont want to waste my money, so what exactly does this product do? and i know quite a bit about about engines but i dont know much about tuning ( i would bring it to a mechanic who knows about this ( garage works maybe...for lack of anyone else i know that tunes cars?) and what does the MAFT-PRO offer for me?