What Synthetic should I use?
- Thread starter RavenMaster
- Start date
GC is an easy, safe bet. Like jdub said.
If you REALLY like to tinker like I do, and have an accurate way of measuring oil temp and pressure then you can try thinner stuff.
UOAs are your friend, but any synthetic (even if its only grp III) in the proper viscosity will work just fine. Getting that viscosity right will impact more than the brand you choose.
If you REALLY like to tinker like I do, and have an accurate way of measuring oil temp and pressure then you can try thinner stuff.
UOAs are your friend, but any synthetic (even if its only grp III) in the proper viscosity will work just fine. Getting that viscosity right will impact more than the brand you choose.
^^^ LOL...you have such a way with words Rich 
Without a doubt, ester based oils like Red Line are the very best.
Without a doubt, ester based oils like Red Line are the very best.
suprarich;966532 said:
we should all write to redline and demaind a "cooking oil" forumla... hahaha it would make even the worst meals taste great!!!! :biglaugh:
if you do the math for redline, it doesnt cost that much per change... especially if you take it to 8,000 miles with a filter change at 4... you get two almost 3 times the amount of time vs what i've been taught all my life...
every 3 months or 3000 miles... what a load of money snatchin shit..
jdub;966488 said:Not to mention your gas mileage
That's what kills me about the Eneos claim that using their 5W-50 increases HP...it defys the principles of fluid dynamics.
The type of oil you use can noticeably mess up your fuel consumption?!:runaway:
Damnit, jdub, you need to write a book.
or just use our head... it makes sense to me...
although, dont diesel trucks use like 20w50 or something crazy like that? i know its a whole different engine... but i just find it funny...
although, dont diesel trucks use like 20w50 or something crazy like that? i know its a whole different engine... but i just find it funny...
87mgte;966549 said:
Yep and here's an article from a couple years ago about Toyota promoting the use of lighter weight oils to help improve gas mileage in the Asian market:
Lube Report Article
It's interesting that it alludes to the difficulty of changing the mind set that lighter oils are a better alternative since nearly everyone is used to using the thicker oils. That is exactly what you see here in the states as well among many mechanics and automotive "experts". It is happening, Toyota released a Service Bulletin covering a large number of their engines authorizing the use of 0W and 5W-20 oils to cover warranty requirements. Here it is...note the JZ series engine is one of them for using 5W-20:
You're still on board with the crowd who thinks high wear metals are OK when running Red Line?
Something about that just doesn't seem to sit quite right with me. I did get phenomenal gas mileage with Red Line which would indicate less friction but why would it be peeling off more metal then normal oils? Better yet, why does it happen despite getting such great gas mileage?
Not saying ester base oils aren't the best thing ever... but maybe some funky stuff going on with Red Line specifically.
Something about that just doesn't seem to sit quite right with me. I did get phenomenal gas mileage with Red Line which would indicate less friction but why would it be peeling off more metal then normal oils? Better yet, why does it happen despite getting such great gas mileage?
Not saying ester base oils aren't the best thing ever... but maybe some funky stuff going on with Red Line specifically.
Well...not entirely on board.
I should probably add that Red Line is a great oil for forced induction engines due to it's shear and high temp resistance. Most of the UOA's I've seen on Red Line are the 1st ones after a switch...how much of that is due to the switch vs what was going on previously is debatable. Ester based oil also will clean a motor out very well...not just varnish deposits, but any other type of build-up is pretty much gone after a couple of fills with an ester based oil...residual metals will show as a result for some time. I've also seem some of the best UOA's I've ever seen on Red Line oil. It really boils down to picking your poison...what may produce great a UOA in one motor may not in another, even though they are the same model engine.
You are correct from above...if you want to figure out what works well for your motor, under your driving conditions, in your climate, you should do oil analysis. And, it is much more important to use the correct viscosity...I beat that one to death
Most of the time I try to gently steer folks away from RP and Red Line oils...mostly due to the expense, especially when there are great, lower cost alternatives out there.
I should probably add that Red Line is a great oil for forced induction engines due to it's shear and high temp resistance. Most of the UOA's I've seen on Red Line are the 1st ones after a switch...how much of that is due to the switch vs what was going on previously is debatable. Ester based oil also will clean a motor out very well...not just varnish deposits, but any other type of build-up is pretty much gone after a couple of fills with an ester based oil...residual metals will show as a result for some time. I've also seem some of the best UOA's I've ever seen on Red Line oil. It really boils down to picking your poison...what may produce great a UOA in one motor may not in another, even though they are the same model engine.
You are correct from above...if you want to figure out what works well for your motor, under your driving conditions, in your climate, you should do oil analysis. And, it is much more important to use the correct viscosity...I beat that one to death
Most of the time I try to gently steer folks away from RP and Red Line oils...mostly due to the expense, especially when there are great, lower cost alternatives out there.
Running the proper viscosity you can achieve 30mpg highway... even on a moderately healthy 7M-GTE. Which to me is perfectly acceptable considering what many people call "good" mileage in their brand new pick-em-up trucks and SUVs. Or even many new American cars. Regardless, unless you have somehow ruined your engine so badly during the build as to give you proper oil pressure with a 20W-50... it's not "built for it". (edit: Darn, had to re-login... jdub beat me.)
jdub - I agree completely with your wanting to steer people away from boutique oils for most conditions. If I were hitting the road course I would still likely run Red Line, but even for "spirited" street driving in Death Valley it seems unnecessary.
I had run Red Line for 2 OCIs, one for quite a long time. After that I came to the conclusion that my engine will not give me scientific enough results from doing UOAs to judge the oil; since I have found some major mechanical flaws. Wear metals were high, but not astronomical considering the circumstances which we discussed in the UOA thread. I just could no longer justify the price of RL.
Maybe if we say this stuff in the 7M-GTE forum it will be beaten into people's minds more then hidden in the expert section?
jdub - I agree completely with your wanting to steer people away from boutique oils for most conditions. If I were hitting the road course I would still likely run Red Line, but even for "spirited" street driving in Death Valley it seems unnecessary.
I had run Red Line for 2 OCIs, one for quite a long time. After that I came to the conclusion that my engine will not give me scientific enough results from doing UOAs to judge the oil; since I have found some major mechanical flaws. Wear metals were high, but not astronomical considering the circumstances which we discussed in the UOA thread. I just could no longer justify the price of RL.
Maybe if we say this stuff in the 7M-GTE forum it will be beaten into people's minds more then hidden in the expert section?
LOL...I'm with ya there. I'm going to keep repeating it...just feels like "shoveling sand in the surf" sometimes. But, it was good to see a bunch of guys chime in that are "getting it".
One thing to keep in mind about Red Line, its chemistry is "agressive" toward certain metals...specifically copper and lead. Red Line will dissolve the oxides of these two metals very readily and are exactly two of the major wear metals a UOA shows. Ater a while, this cleaning effect results in drops in Cu and Pb once the high levels of moly in Red Line begins to have an effect....it takes a while. As you pointed out, Red Line is way over kill for most motors and the mechanical condition of the motor has the biggest impact on what wear metals you show
One thing to keep in mind about Red Line, its chemistry is "agressive" toward certain metals...specifically copper and lead. Red Line will dissolve the oxides of these two metals very readily and are exactly two of the major wear metals a UOA shows. Ater a while, this cleaning effect results in drops in Cu and Pb once the high levels of moly in Red Line begins to have an effect....it takes a while. As you pointed out, Red Line is way over kill for most motors and the mechanical condition of the motor has the biggest impact on what wear metals you show
CTsupra
Supramania Contributor
This is some seriously valuble info.
The way I see it is when it comes time to build my 7m I will use dino oil, switch to GC, then after the recommended mileage in changing both these oils/filter and the motor is properly broken in, I will either continue to run GC w/1qt full ester stock or go with redline. Of course with the redline, oil weight will depend on what bearing clearences I run.
The way I see it is when it comes time to build my 7m I will use dino oil, switch to GC, then after the recommended mileage in changing both these oils/filter and the motor is properly broken in, I will either continue to run GC w/1qt full ester stock or go with redline. Of course with the redline, oil weight will depend on what bearing clearences I run.
You'll be happy to know that I plan on doing a virgin OA, followed by a UOA of the initial break-in oil (20 minutes run-time), followed by another virgin OA-UOA of the ring-seating (500 miles) then maintaining a UOA of the Redline oil for as long as I have the car. I anticipate 10-12k mile oil changes (as I will be running a bypass filter as well )
I think it'll be an interesting thing to see - a freshly build 7M, how much metal wear there truly is in the break-in period, and see how long it takes the engine to 'stabilize' into normal wear.
Honestly, I hope to find that after 20k miles or so, I have practically zero wear.
)I think it'll be an interesting thing to see - a freshly build 7M, how much metal wear there truly is in the break-in period, and see how long it takes the engine to 'stabilize' into normal wear.
Honestly, I hope to find that after 20k miles or so, I have practically zero wear.
Doward;966661 said:You'll be happy to know that I plan on doing a virgin OA, followed by a UOA of the initial break-in oil (20 minutes run-time), followed by another virgin OA-UOA of the ring-seating (500 miles) then maintaining a UOA of the Redline oil for as long as I have the car. I anticipate 10-12k mile oil changes (as I will be running a bypass filter as well
I think it'll be an interesting thing to see - a freshly build 7M, how much metal wear there truly is in the break-in period, and see how long it takes the engine to 'stabilize' into normal wear.
Honestly, I hope to find that after 20k miles or so, I have practically zero wear.
This is what I wish I could do. Hope it goes well for you... unfortunately it takes a looong time to get results because of the long OCIs.
BTW - When do I get my SM Oil Expert badge?
jdub;966561 said:Yep and here's an article from a couple years ago about Toyota promoting the use of lighter weight oils to help improve gas mileage in the Asian market:
Lube Report Article
It's interesting that it alludes to the difficulty of changing the mind set that lighter oils are a better alternative since nearly everyone is used to using the thicker oils. That is exactly what you see here in the states as well among many mechanics and automotive "experts". It is happening, Toyota released a Service Bulletin covering a large number of their engines authorizing the use of 0W and 5W-20 oils to cover warranty requirements. Here it is...note the JZ series engine is one of them for using 5W-20:
Yes I remember that TSB quite well eh Dub
Duane
LOL...amazing how all this intertwines huh Duane, regardless of the engine.
John - I would seriously like to see that...it follows my intention on the new motor I'm building to a "T".
LOL...you're well on the way
John - I would seriously like to see that...it follows my intention on the new motor I'm building to a "T".
mkIIIman089;966663 said:BTW - When do I get my SM Oil Expert badge?
LOL...you're well on the way
