Turbo and manifold questions. Need good advice

[JoeC]

I decided to make the big decision and go bigger than what I am now. Here's what I am looking at.

66 or 67mm turbo for 400-450rwhp at 10-15psi on pump gas. Not sure if I should go SP, PTE..t4, t3, t04.. I don't even know where to start on what I am looking for.

Manifolds.. I want to stay relatively cheap in this department because I am looking to buy a turbo on either SF or SM for under 1k and want to keep this under 1500 for the turbo/manifold setup. I either want to go REALLY cheap and just have an adapter made to fit the GTE exhaust like this one:

Or I could buy an SS auto chrome exhaust on ebay for like $150 to my door. I heard there are some problems with the welds on these, but my neighbor is a good welder and I think he could go over them all for me. Is there clearance problems??

Injectors.. Will 550's be pushing the limits? 680's? Bigger? I want sards because I have been hearing problems after problems with RC's, PTE's, Venoms, etc.. What should be good for 450rwhp on pump gas, but enough for me to turn up the boost and make 600rwhp on race gas?

 

[Nick M]

I can't say that I am going to ever mod the car that far for power, but I see bolt on turbo's that easily do it.

 

[oscolivar1]

Theres problems with RC and PTE injectors?
Please send me the links becuase i have never heard such a thing.

I would get 680 injectors BTW if your thinking about turning the boost and shooting for 600+hp.

if your looking for cheap....port the the stock exhaust manifold and buy a bolt of turbo that will suit your wishes.

 

[starscream5000]

I decided to make the big decision and go bigger than what I am now. Here's what I am looking at.

66 or 67mm turbo for 400-450rwhp at 10-15psi on pump gas. Not sure if I should go SP, PTE..t4, t3, t04.. I don't even know where to start on what I am looking for.

Manifolds.. I want to stay relatively cheap in this department because I am looking to buy a turbo on either SF or SM for under 1k and want to keep this under 1500 for the turbo/manifold setup. I either want to go REALLY cheap and just have an adapter made to fit the GTE exhaust like this one:

/

Or I could buy an SS auto chrome exhaust on ebay for like $150 to my door. I heard there are some problems with the welds on these, but my neighbor is a good welder and I think he could go over them all for me. Is there clearance problems??

Injectors.. Will 550's be pushing the limits? 680's? Bigger? I want sards because I have been hearing problems after problems with RC's, PTE's, Venoms, etc.. What should be good for 450rwhp on pump gas, but enough for me to turn up the boost and make 600rwhp on race gas?

First of all, a 66 or 67 trim turbo is overkill for the power goals you have posted up . I'm going for 450-475 and I'm using a .61 trim turbo on the cold side and .81 on the hot side, which is good for +600 HP (look up BOSS stage V). 550's will not be a problem for 400-450 HP, these are the same size injectors I'll be using and they will still have flowing capabilities left for a little more HP SAFELY. I good rule of thumb is 1cc of fuel per 1 HP. Mike Malloy made around 540 HP on a stock PORTED exhaust manifold and intake manifold, no need to switch those buddy . And previously posted by someone else, please inform us of problems with PTE, and RC injectors... Now Vemons are another story .

 

[JoeC]

Look in the venom discussion thread, people were posting receiving their RC550's and having them flow tested and having them WAY off just like the venoms. Same with the PTE's.

I could go bolt on turbo, but you see.. Bolt on JT = $1500. I can find a new t4 for $800-900.

I will be buying my friends SSAC for 110, and he's making me a spacer for the turbo for $50 and I figure that will be cheaper than having even that adapter made for the stock manifold.

I understand people saying 67's are overkill for my power goal of 450rwhp. But looking at malloynx's dyno sheets on a boss 67mm bolt on, he was making 450-480 from 15-18psi. and 550 at 24 psi.

I would rather be able to make 450rwhp at 10-15psi on a 67 rather than 450rwhp at 20+ on a smaller turbo if that makes sense. Last of all, I will be running a FFIM with Q45

 

[starscream5000]

You asked for an opinion and I gave it to you . I'm sure you'll find that even Sard's injectors will be off at times (ask suprahero how many cc's his "550's" flow ). It's engine and you can do whatever you want to with it, but there is no perfect fuel injector out there, RC PTE and Sard just happen to be the better ones, and even they are off at times. As far as turbo's go, again, buy what you want, but it's one of those things that are "you get what you pay for". Just make sure to compare whatever turbo's compressor map you are thinking about getting to what specific needs you'll be trying to get out of it and then determine what would be your best turbo to get, I'm just warning you that the best one to get in your specific situation may not be for the price you'd like .

Sorry if my opinions weren't helpful.

 

[JoeC]

what do you mean the one I want wont be the price I like? Even the GT3582R (GT35R) is under 1500.

Would most people take a bolt on 66/67mm turbo over a gt35r if they were the same price?

 

[starscream5000]

I prefer bolt on , less modification needed and I like a stock looking engine bay for the most part . That's just my personal opinion.

 

[JoeC]

:evil2: I wont be looking much like stock, so i figure why not blow it out of the water.

FFIM with q45, 24x12x4 intercooler, 2.5" pipes, maft pro w/ speed density. Looking to run a nice 4" polished pipe off the turbo with a k&n. Moved my coil packs already so they arent visible.

 

[MDCmotorsports]

JoeC... You wanted the opinion of the public, and now you shall recieve.

You're cruizing for a bruising young sir.

Either do it right, or don't do it at all.

If you are wanting to make 400-425, go with a 57 trim ct26.

Bolt it on, install a 3" elbow, 3" down pipe, 3" exhaust, walbro, AFPR, 550's, a lex afm and WALAH!

You're good to go.

Also, when you are looking at new turbos, remember this - most of the aftermarket turbos are ALL externally gated.

-So tack on $150-850+ for a wastegate.

-You'll need a dump tube for that wastegate, add $75-200 bucks.

-Also, you'll need a custom fabbed down pipe for said turbo. Tack on another $150-500+.

-You'll need some way of attaching said turbo engine. Add $100-850+ for manifold or adaptor.

-You'll need flanges, and oil feed return lines. Tack on another $175-300 depending on what lines you want how you want to plumb them.

-You'll need a intake pipe for any thing over 3" (stock toyota). Add another $75-300 depending on who makes it and what its made out of.

The list can keep growing but I think you get the point.

 

[JoeC]

Jon I hope you know I value you're opinion more than most. Let me try and explain what I am trying to do without so much harsh words =P.

I was thinking about just going 57 trim, 650 bucks and upgrade my fuel and be done with it. I already have a 3" elbow, 3" exhaust.

But when I think about pushing the limits of a turbo to its maximum capibilities it makes me iffy on how long it will last in my hands. Would $650 go towards a better turbo in the first place and save me money in the long run? Who knows.

I do admit 67 is probably overkill, but there are also many 61-62mm t4 turbos which I believe would fit my goal a little better and give me room to grow.

I have the manifold lined up already, SSAC ebay manifold. I know I need a spacer, got that covered too (thanks Weezl). I plan on cutting the wastegate flange and rotating it 90 degrees. Will not be a problem rewelding it. I have two neighbors with good welders and a family friend who owns a machine shop. I also plan on having all of the welds cleaned up if need be, and the inside cleaned up. All of the fabrication work (welding, grinding, etc) can be done VERY cheap for me.

Though, I do have to buy a wastegate, injectors, fuel pump ontop of what I have lined up aswell as a downpipe. I think the downpipe can be made cheaply aswell if I buy the materials and maybe a case of beer for the neighbor.

Should work out okay. I dont go back to school until september and will be working full time until then. Since I have literally No bills right now besides insurance/cell phone once a month I should be able to have this all done before middle of May if I save my cash and don't spend it. Just have to go into the battle with a plan right? lol.

 

[jdub]

You're focusing on inducer size and not what the turbo flows...the flow also depends on the compressor housing and the efficiency of the turbine. To make an accurate comparison, you have to look at the turbo map to see the flow in CFM. The boost in psi is not an indication of how the turbo flows. Spool time is a consideration...do you want flow at a lower rpm? Or are you willing to accept lag to get the flow required for more HP?

You also have to look at your piping....can it handle the turbo's flow without exceeding critical velocity by a large amount. Is your stock throttle body going to be a restriction? Will you need to upgrade to a FFIM and 80mm TB to get the flow you want? Is your IC capable of handling the CFM put out by the turbo? The turbo, piping, IC, intake manifold, and TB should be looked at as a system...performance of one part affects the others and overall performance.

Since malloynx's situation was mentioned, he had a restriction with his IC...he had 2" inlets/outlets and he was using a stock TB on a stock (ported) intake manifold. He was in the process of correcting this when his motor threw a rod...he did amazingly well making the power he did considering these restrictions.

I had my RC 550's flow tested prior to installation...they were all within less than 1% of each other. You really can't make a blanket statement that there are problems with specific injectors (except the Venoms) based on a couple of posts. IMO, one should have the injectors flow tested as a matter of practice...if they don't flow as advertised, send them back

 

[JoeC]

I ordered a longrunner FFIM from sethron, should be here in 2 weeks. Q45 90mm throttle body. 24x12x4" intercooler with 3" inlets. 2.5" piping. (I was going to run 3" piping but was avised not to by JT).

I am mainly looking for a turbo that will provide good flow (enough for the 400 mark) between 2,000 rpm, and 4,000 rpm without pushing the turbo to its potential.

If I go for a 57 trim CT26, the ct26 housing itself will be the greatest restriction in my system. Say for example if I went with the turbo MDC is selling right now for $800 or something? 62-1. I am sure that it would flow TONS over the ct26 and make loads more in a reasonable time.

I remember looking at some of IJ's posts talking about his GT35 setup making positive boost (1psi) at 1700 rpm which is already flowing more than the stock turbo I believe?

 

[jdub]

Looks like to me you've already chosen your path

You want a fast spooling turbo with good flow...the bigger BOSS series will do that. You will need an adapter for the manifold you're using, but you wont need an external wastegate and will be able to use an available downpipe. Or you could go with one of the GT35R based turbos and it will require more custom made parts. On the set-up you are buying, an upgraded CT26 is not going to cut it.

 

[JoeC]

I am already buying a t4 manifold, so the boss series is out for me.

Only decision I need help with is Which 61-62mm type turbo? Any one that I find with a t4 flange and a .63/.81 exhaust AR?

Also, what wastegates are people using that work ok? I think the SSAC are flanged for a "40mm or 50mm".. Not sure on the differences in size and the advantages. I'll search and see what I come up with. Input is also welcome.

 

[pimptrizkit]

so joe, all these parts will look beatifull on my car!

thanks so much bro!
:evil2:












no really though, im starting to hate your gut's.

well i guess i dont have to source a turbo for my celica drifter project any more huh?:biglaugh:



i think you should get a BB turbo since your going to do this "Right" the first time, why waste your money and think latter you could have had a better spooling turbo....

joe, this is probaly going to cost more then you except, but im going to back you in your decisions in putting your rod through the starter, just gives me more stuff to work on and keep my self busy this summer, i guess it's a good thing im getting the n/a block prepped for a mhg and ligned bored lol.
a bigger waste gate will keep you from having boost spikes or boost creep,
are you going to dump to atmosphear? probaly gona want to source a good targa top for when you re-paint..

 

[starscream5000]

The wastegate, be it 40mm or 50mm will be perfectly fine if all you are wanting to run is 15 psi like you stated before. Driftmotion sells some knockoff external wastegates that are proven to work just as well as the name brands, ask the owner himself, IIRC he uses one . Just like jdub and I stated before, you really need to research any turbo's compressor map that you are interested in to determine how it will act when you put it on. Just asking about what size the exhaust A/R is will not allow us to tell you what you can expect from the said turbo, there are other things to consider like the actual design of the turbo itself.

 

[pimptrizkit]

true that. hopefully he will learn alot between now and when he buys it too, :aigo:

joe, when you buy your fuel pump dont buy an ebay one please. buy a legit walbro..

 

[JoeC]

true that. hopefully he will learn alot between now and when he buys it too, :aigo:

joe, when you buy your fuel pump dont buy an ebay one please. buy a legit walbro..

Jim, I always learn a lot between when I research something from when I buy it! Gotta learn somehow?.. I will buy a legit walbro, dont worry.

The turbo I plan on getting is an ITS most likely, Here are the specs.

GT61 P-Trim, is an aggressive performer, yet it offers a broad map. Ideal horsepower range is 450 –600, comes standard with .70 T4 Tangential turbine housing. See options below for other turbine A/R’s. Suitable options are: · Super Duplex, Dual Ballbearing · Stage 6 turbine wheel · Polished Compressor Housing This Innovative GT Series turbo features; · ITS Big Shaft option for strength · ITS 10 bladed Turbine Wheel · Inconel for high EGT durability · Highest efficiency available · ITS’ unique Hydrodynamic Bearing system · 360 Degree Super Thrust · Redline balancing. All components meet rigorous quality control, each turbo is assembled by experienced turbo technicians, taking the utmost care to ensure Innovative’s exacting tolerances are met.

 

[starscream5000]

Just for the record, Innovative Turbos are the same people who make the BOSS series turbos, and they've been proven to perform and still be going strong after much use, so you've picked a good brand to start with . BTW, the GT61 compressor map is the closest map that would match up to the BOSS stage 5 61 trim, which is what I based my research on when I was deciding on my turbo . I may end up going with a stage 4 though, but with a bigger trim on the cold side, I'm still undecided, and this will be one of the last things I'll be modding on the supra anyways, so something better may come along between here and now too .