Timing Issues [SOLVED]

[MA70Snowman]

Okay poured all over these forums tired everything.

My engine jumped timing on me (The tensioner pulley wasn't torqued correctly) so I had to reset it.

I set it according to TSRM.. rotated by hand 6 complete revolutions (3 engine cycles) verified everything is good. marks all match up. couldn't get an idle. so i rechecked. Verified my CPS. okay everything is good.
ROUGH idle. checked timing was like 15-20* advanced. Did some searching found that a code 51 will fubar your timing. so i checked codes. okay I have a 24/32/51 (24/32 are because I'm running the MAFT PRO w/ the HAC and AFM unplugged) okay. so I fixed the 51. good its gone.

Retimed. re-verified. okay. Jumpered the diag block. fired it up. Idles smooth. it holds at 1000 RPMs. checked timing w/ light. its STILL at around 10-15* advanced. (after TDC) twisted the CPS to get the timing to come back down. Engine speed went up, and CPS is pulled as far as it will go and i'm still at about 8* past TDC. I tried pulling the CPS out jumping a tooth back and car won't idle.

ANY thoughts on this?

 

[jdub]

Is the CPS lined up like this with the cam gears pointing at the index and damper pointing at zero:

It sounds like it is...just checking. You might want to check that the #1 piston is at TDC...get a chopstick and insert in the spark plug hole. It should achieve max height when the damper is pointing at zero. If not, your damper is FUBAR (rubber twisted up inside).

With the diag block jumped, timing should be 10 deg BTDC...10-15 deg ATDC is way off.

 

[MA70Snowman]

yeah thats how the CPS is.
and I checked TRUE TDC w/ a phillips screwdriver, I saw that in another post lol. and yeah. i'm about 18-20* off.. BUT.. it runs smooth lol X_X ('scept for when you give it throttle.. then it just bogs)

::EDIT:: if anyone thinks this could be related to a MAFT pro issue please chime in. I'm tried checking full throttle but no loght there. It was a good tune prior to going down, so not to sure . just thought i'd throw that out there as I know the MAFT pulls timing.

 

[cjsupra90]

Ok, first off just to clarify advanced and retarded ign being that your post has contradicting verbag.
If your timing is advanced, it is BTDC (Before Top Dead Center) and if your timing is retarded, it is ATDC (After Top Dead Center).

You say its advanced 10-15* advanced (after TDC) but advanced means Before TDC.

Several things here come into play.
For starters, your Dampener mark could be off as the dampener could have broke the rubber bond and slipped. To check this, take out the #1 cylinder spark plug and use a long Dowl (preferably Wood) and stick it in the hole and turn the engine towards TDC and when the Dowl stops rising, The engine is truely at TDC and see if your timing mark lines up with TDC (0* mark) on the TB Cover. If it doesn't then the dampener has slipped. If it does line up, then your fine there.

Next is the coolent temp that you are trying to set the timing up at. The ECU increases timing at colder temps and timing should be set with the engine at full operating temp.

Lastly, if you look at the timing without the DIAG jumped, the timing will be different then if it is jumped.

If your dampener has not slipped then warm the engine up to full operating temp, jump the DAIG and set the timing then your done.

Oh one more thing that goes back to timing and BTDC and ATDC. Looking at the TB cover and the degree numbers. Everything to the LEFT of 0* is advanced (BTDC) and everything to the RIGHT is Retarded (ATDC)... The numbers are all "advanced" (BTDC)

 

[MA70Snowman]

Ok, first off just to clarify advanced and retarded ign being that your post has contradicting verbag.
If your timing is advanced, it is BTDC (Before Top Dead Center) and if your timing is retarded, it is ATDC (After Top Dead Center).

You say its advanced 10-15* advanced (after TDC) but advanced means Before TDC.

Okay I'll watch my verbage on that. When you're going negative to a positive your advancing. hence my choice of verbage. But I did make sure to annotate AFTER TDC.

Several things here come into play.
For starters, your Dampener mark could be off as the dampener could have broke the rubber bond and slipped. To check this, take out the #1 cylinder spark plug and use a long Dowl (preferably Wood) and stick it in the hole and turn the engine towards TDC and when the Dowl stops rising, The engine is truely at TDC and see if your timing mark lines up with TDC (0* mark) on the TB Cover. If it doesn't then the dampener has slipped. If it does line up, then your fine there.

Please see the above two posts

Next is the coolent temp that you are trying to set the timing up at. The ECU increases timing at colder temps and timing should be set with the engine at full operating temp.

Damn. I knew this.. but no I was trying to set timing on a cold engine. I'll have to warm it up and see where it levels out at. Thanks for pointing that out. You think that could account for it being retarded 18*?

 

[cjsupra90]

Sorry for the part about checking the ballancer and your post about checking it already. You posted that while I was typing mine and I was preoccupied by the TV while I was posting. Sorry about that.

Hope you didn't think I was comming off as an A-hole about the verbage usage of advanced and retarded. I wasn't trying to be that way, but it can get confusing when you say one thing but what your mean is the opposite.....

Yes when you are going negitive to positive, you can be advancing but if your are making something happen earlier or before a certian point, you are advancing too...

Any which way, it seems that your ballancer has slipped based on what you said in POST #3 so best thing to do is make a new mark at 0 and with some white-out or something and also put a line accross the front face of the dampener/pully to make sure you can see if it has slipped any while setting the timing, start it up and warm it up, set your timing.

 

[MA70Snowman]

Sorry for the part about checking the ballancer and your post about checking it already. You posted that while I was typing mine and I was preoccupied by the TV while I was posting. Sorry about that.

Hope you didn't think I was comming off as an A-hole about the verbage usage of advanced and retarded. I wasn't trying to be that way, but it can get confusing when you say one thing but what your mean is the opposite.....

Yes when you are going negitive to positive, you can be advancing but if your are making something happen earlier or before a certian point, you are advancing too...

Any which way, it seems that your ballancer has slipped based on what you said in POST #3 so best thing to do is make a new mark at 0 and with some white-out or something and also put a line accross the front face of the dampener/pully to make sure you can see if it has slipped any while setting the timing, start it up and warm it up, set your timing.

Hey no worries CJ, I wasn't taking none of that the wrong way. Okay I see what you mean about "advancing" timing makes sense.

And I can see how you mis-read post 3. it should read as..

"I checked TRUE TDC w/ a phillips screwdriver, I saw that in another post lol.[Everything matched up according to TSRM]

yeah. [after jumping the diag block, and checking w/ my timing light] i'm about 18-20* off [of what the TSRM says I should be at]"

::EDIT::
PROBLEM SOLVED: So finally figured out the issue/s. My throttle linkage (the part the actual cable attatches to) was hung up on a thread keeping the throttle slightly open, that coupled w/ the tune on the MAFT had "RETARDED" my timing. once I reset the throttle linkage, RE-adjusted my TPS, zeroed my MAFT, I was able to get it timed at a good Idle (about 800 RPMs)

Thanks for the help guys.