Time for a build up!!

mhopemk3

The CT install SPECIALIST
Jul 13, 2005
762
0
0
52
Jacksonville, FL 32277
Me and Black87Turbo are ready to send the blocks to the shop. Both of us have been doing a lot of research thanks to the posts in the engine buildup area. We have just read too many opinions and are not real sure what to use.

Would like a response from guys that have done builds and are familiar with the internals.. Not looking for first timers with opinions and nothing to back it up.. Enough said...

Our goals mid to upper 500s! We want forged internals!! No stress testing stock stuff!

These are 7m's.

-What are the best pistons and rods to use? We have read about piston slap etc..
-Other parts that should be top notch? (Bearings etc.)
-Brand of HG?
-I will be using ARP hardware!

Thanks,
 

Mr.PFloyd

I am the Super Devil
Jun 22, 2005
3,964
0
36
36
Mississauga, Ontario
get a hks 3.0mm stopper. That is rule number one for safe 500 horsepower. And as for bearings, i have no idea what is good anymore, as clevite has closed their 7m doors.
Rods + Pistons = Eagles + JE as my choice, just don't use the rod bolts (or ask for better ones) that come with the eagles.
More people should chime in as i only ever really saw the build up of one 600+ hp 7m.
 

JoeThaMan

*THE* Man
Apr 10, 2005
25
0
0
www.jtm-enterprises.net
I've done a couple in my time.

For 500hp, you don't need that much. If you're planning on 500rwhp, I would just recommend the head gasket, pistons, and arp hardware. On my setup I'm running JE Pistons and HKS 2.0mm Stopper (they don't make a 3.0mm Stopper, just Bead) and ARP Head Bolts and Rod Bolts with Stock Main Bolts. My last dyno was 518rwhp/491rwtq and I've been driving like that for about 10k miles, and before that at 400rwhp for 10k miles. For the pistons I would recommend the JE's because they seem to make the least noise at startup. I've done motors with Ross Pistons and they knock like a mofo when cold, but when I start it up during the winter, it make a little noise. That knocking is the pistons ratting around in the cylinder until it warms up and expands. This will usually cause wear on the skirts of the pistons.

here is a mod list for my car:

http://www.jtm-enterprises.net/supra
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
I agree that the ross pistons are loud, but they are also thicker than the JE's.

Not sure that anyone short of 700+hp will need that much metal however.

Stock rods with ARP bolts should be fine, but for a level of insurance, there are alternatives, but they are not cheap.
Eagle as noted. (Get better quality bolts.)
Crower. Never used them, but I would imagine they are good quality.
Pauter. Best there is, and why I have them in my own engine. Open your wallet and kiss a grand goodbye, but never worry about rod failure.

Some things to consider.
Forged billet rods do not have oil squirter holes in them. This helps to keep the oil where you need it. ON the rod bearing!
Forged billet rods have more material at the shoulders, where I've seen most stock rods fail. (Generally, I've seen them crack through the oil squirter hole, or twist up on the beam, then fail at the oil hole.)
First and formost, the stock bolts fail! Then everything else goes to hades quickly.

From what I've seen, the Wiesco pistons appear to have the longest skirts, and are lighter in appearance than the ROSS or JE designs.

There are other options out there of course.

I reccomend haveing your pistons coated. At the minimum, the thermal barrier coating will save your engine from detonation damage in some cases. (It did mine.)
My pistons are tri coated. (Thermal barrier, molydisulfied skirts and thermaldispersant underside.)

I have a set of ROSS pistons in 20 over, tri coated and ARP rod bolts in 6 good rods sitting on my shelf. (I really should sell this stuff one of these days.)

The pistons were in my "coatings experiment motor" that ran for 15 min. (I screwed up, and did not clean out the crank oil passeges, because I did not pull the plugs.. there was sand blasting abrasive in there, and it took out the bearings in short order. The pistons have very light scratches on the skirts, but are not dimensionally changed. I have stripped and re-coated the skirts with molydisulfied. The rings are not even broken in. If I was to build another stock bore/stroke 7M, I'd use these in a heartbeat, but I do not think I will build another 7M at this time.)

With the coatings, I reccomend a bore to piston clearance max of 4k. My current engine was bored to 3k with a tourqe plate, then honed and the result is about 3.5k of clearance.

This keeps piston slap to a minimum on the ROSS pistons, and the coatings keep the piston from expanding too much.

I have had one detonation event that broke the insulation off two spark plugs, but ZERO engine damage was caused. No piston crown pitting, no broken lands, nothing that I can see from the top of the pistons. Compression is fine. (I was passing a line of trucks, RV's and cars, and had a boost spike, and then vehicles came around the corner the other way! Could not lift, or I'd have died.)

Do coatings work? I think so. (BTW, my head is fully coated too.)

So, minimum build for 500hp.
ARP rod bolts, head studs and a good metal head gasket.

Want more insurance?
Buy good forged/billet rods and get good bolts.

Coat your pistons. Coat your head if your so inclined.

Shim your new Asin oil pump. Use ARZ's oil crossover pipe. I personally like the idea of remote filter/cooler etc, so mod your blocks so the oil comes out the NA cooler port.

Always replace your springs with comp cams BBC ones.

Use gasket maker like "The right stuff" for most of your oil seals in the engine. (Pan, front etc.) The cork shit they include in the kits is just a leak waiting to happen.

Read up on build tips posted here. There are my notes as well as some excellent tips from others who have tried many things, and found what works best. (Saves you time and money.)

There are tons of ideas, and I'm sure there will be more. (Like Nashman's oil pan mod. A very cool upgrade, and one that I would have done had I been thinking about it at the time, and seen his post before I put my last engine into the Supra.)
 

mhopemk3

The CT install SPECIALIST
Jul 13, 2005
762
0
0
52
Jacksonville, FL 32277
Thanks Cryo and Adjuster.. I appreciate the feedback.. I was curious if anyone had used Arias or CP Pistons, I was leaning on the Eagle H beams. I didn't want to fork out a grand for rods!

Who would "coat the pistons" the machine shop or the manufacturer?
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Techlinecoatings.com

I coated my own. (You will need a sand blaster with aluminum oxide grit.)

Do not glass bead. :( (Unless you really want your coatings to fail for some reason I suppose.)

Check around on the net, there are many coatings places, some/most use Techline products for the coatings, but some are their own. (Such as Swaintech.)

I thought about doing this for a side business, but it was too much of a PITA part time, and I'm not ready to jump into anything like this FT and work for myself. :)
 

Justin727

T-virus infected
I'm running eagle rods with wiseco pistons. hardly any noticable slap. i have clevite bearings. All is well with my motor. Im using a Greddy 2.0 MHG as well.

Nothing wrong with the eagle rod bolts which are arp's. Just gotta know how to torque them down correctly. believe it or not you just dont torque down on the suckers and leave them be.

This thread has alot of helpful info in it! Some is bad info but most is good.
http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359460

i suggest wiseco pistons because of the coating and the fact they have longer skirts hence little piston slap noise.
Of course you need a new toyota OEM oil pump and check out the vendor section, cant remember who sells it but they offer a nice SS braided line cross over tube for the oil pump. But as far as bearing go use toyota oem bearings for best clearances.
ARP head bolts or studs will do just fine! Then your motor should be cherry!!!
Sorry for it being thrown together i'm at work ;)