R154 or Clutch Troubles please help

[bobiseverywhere]

Ok guys well here it is, i am trying to help some friends here with their Supra.

We just put the engine back in the car.
we have changed the master and slave clutch cylinders and have played with the adjustment screw both ways and we can not get the car in gear, or nore accurately get the clutch to disengage .

The Master was bench bled and we bled the master a slave so much it's not funny so were pretty sure there is no air in the lines.

It seems like the clutch is not disengaging. We have checked the fork and even watched it working and all seems fine???? But we can not get the car in gear with the car running. It is as if the Clutch is permanently engaged or something. Have we missed something what might be wrong?

When the car is off it is a bit tough to get it in gear, but my guess is thats just from it being dry for a while or something to that effect?

any help here would be great

 

[arz]

Is it possible the clutch rusted to the flywheel? Was this combo stored outside for a while? (Motor off) Put the car in gear push the clutch in, start the car and see if the starter isnt strong enough to possibly break the bond? "IF" IT IS RUSTED that is.

OR

You say you can see the clutch disengage when you push in the clutch?

I had the same type of thing happen during a motor swap. I ended up breaking the bleeder for the slave cylinder loose, some how pressure was trapped in there and releasing it was all that was needed and it worked fine after that. If no one had there foot on the clutch pedal and you break the bleeder loose and fluid squirts out you know there was pressure in there. There should be no pressure when the pedal is not depressed.

I dont know why it happend but thats what worked for me.

 

[F_T_F]

is it possiable the clutch was put in backwards?

 

[bobiseverywhere]

arz i will gave that a try since it is easiest but maybe it is the clutch in backwards

 

[Colie]

All right... I was working with Josh on this...
It's my GF's car (I'm using her screen name).

The clutch is not rusted onto it... we actually swapped our working transmission on the new engine so I know the transmission is working ok.

I read somewhere that we can't really install the clutch disk backwards without hearing it... (the springs would it the flywheel, would it not?)

 

[JZ_killa_t68]

is it possiable the clutch was put in backwards?

My vote is for this also, as I have learned the hard way about this. Take a look at the clutch disk when you take it out. on the center shaft, one side sticks out farther than the other side. I can't remember 100% what side is where anymore, but guessing, I'd say that the long side goes towards the motor.

the fastest way to do this is just undo the transmission, throw a tranny jack under it, take out the driveshaft, slide the tranny back about 6-8 inches, drop out the pressure plate (actually I think this should be done before unbolting the trannY) and take out the disk flip it and throw it back up in that bitch. all in all, I can guarantee that you will get this done before faster than it takes a 93-98 lt1 trans am/camaro to replace his front 6 spark plugs.

 

[p5150]

Backwards disc.....

You could look at it and see if it is in backwards through the inspection plates before you drop the transmission.

 

[Colie]

My vote is for this also, as I have learned the hard way about this. Take a look at the clutch disk when you take it out. on the center shaft, one side sticks out farther than the other side. I can't remember 100% what side is where anymore, but guessing, I'd say that the long side goes towards the motor.

the fastest way to do this is just undo the transmission, throw a tranny jack under it, take out the driveshaft, slide the tranny back about 6-8 inches, drop out the pressure plate (actually I think this should be done before unbolting the trannY) and take out the disk flip it and throw it back up in that bitch. all in all, I can guarantee that you will get this done before faster than it takes a 93-98 lt1 trans am/camaro to replace his front 6 spark plugs.

Did you hear any funny sounds or something out of the ordinary when the disk was put backwards!?

 

[arz]

can't remember 100% what side is where anymore, but guessing, I'd say that the long side goes towards the motor.

I have several friends with Toyota trucks make this assumption also. Im pretty sure thats incorrect. I just installed mine less than a month ago. Im pretty confident the springs and the bulk of the clutch go towards the aft of the vehicle or closest to the clutch cover. You will be able to tell very easily once the clutch is off. Take the clutch plate and rest it on the flywheel (clutch cover removed) just like its going to be
when its installed. Rotate it on the clutch pilot tool if you have one. If you hear metal to metal clanking/scratching then thats the wrong way, If it just slides (like friction material on the flywheel) thats the way it goes. Im 99% sure the bulk of the sprung hub goes aft on the vehicle.

Since his original post didnt say why the engine was out I just assumed he never touched the clutch.

Please give more info when asking for help. As many details as possible will eliminate a lot of guess work on the diagnosis end.

When the car is off it is a bit tough to get it in gear, but my guess is thats just from it being dry for a while or something to that effect?

That would make sence, because when you disengage the clutch it is suposed to release the input shaft and let it rotate enough for the syncros to align the counter shaft and input shaft for the shift ring to slip over the gear and syncro.

Chances are you wont hear any noise because you are putting so much pressure on the thrust bearings in the motor you are just flexing the clutch plate parts.

Put a wrench on the crank (while in neutral) and try to turn the crank over then check it against a properly working 7M in neutral. There should be alot more resistance in yours.

Keep us posted

 

[bobiseverywhere]

thanks for all the advise, we are going to give it a try tonight and see where we get


arz they had the engine out to swap a 1JZ that had crank walk for a good one but the engine doe snot matter so much in this scenario i think??

 

[Colie]

and arz, btw, your brakes are amazing on my GF's car...

 

[arz]

^^^Thanks, glad you like them^^^

Do you have sticky tires? You will be blown away at how good they work when you get sticky tires.

 

[Colie]

^^^Thanks, glad you like them^^^

Do you have sticky tires? You will be blown away at how good they work when you get sticky tires.

i have to get the car running first to test the brakes.

Anyways, i'll get the tranny off soon and check it out.

 

[p5150]

You dont have to pull the transmission to see if it is installed backwards. Just unbolt the pressure plate through the inspection holes and look at it.

If its backwards then put a longer bolt on both sides of the bell housing (two bolts total) to hold the front of the transmission even with the block and allow the transmission to slide back.

Loosen the motor mounts so that the engine can rock backward.

Place a jack on the output end of the transmission, loosen the rear mount and slowly lower it down to gain better access to the top bolts. Block up or jackstand the front of the engine to hold it cocked back and keep it from rocking forward while you work on it. You will have to pull the driveline and drain the tranny first.

After all but the longer bolts are removed (the longer bolts should be lightly threaded) pull the transmission back. The bolts will hold it in place while you flip the disc. They can also serve as a guide to pull it back together. This should allow you to do it by yourself if necessary.

 

[Colie]

How much longer do you need the bolts to be?

 

[p5150]

about 3 inches longer should do it.

You need it long enough to compensate for the pilot bearing shaft on the tip of the splined shaft, flywheel thickness and disc center.

If you do this just be careful to bring the tranny straight back and not tweak the bolts holding it in.

 

[arz]

P5150, I like your idea for rotating the disc, if that does work, that would save quite a bit of time, I will recomend it next time one of my Rock crawling friends does it backwards.

You will have to pull the driveline and drain the tranny first.

To save time on this one, mark (so it goes back togeather in phase) and remove just the aft half of the Drive shaft leave the front half of the slip yoke engaged in the seal just get a wire hangar slip it thru the u-joint and around the shifter housing and it will keep the drive shaft in there while your thrashing on the trans and you wont loose any transmission fluid.

 

[JZ_killa_t68]

Did you hear any funny sounds or something out of the ordinary when the disk was put backwards!?

The out of the ordinary was that the clutch never released when I was trying to start motor. (new clutch, ect) It was when I was still a noob, ha I was so pissed off and lazy, that I flew a friend from San Fran to Honolulu to flip it for me-well, for that and beer drinking.

 

[Mk3runner]

not trying to thread jack or anything but in about an hour or so I'm putting my motor in and I have two questions. which is why I choose this thread instead of making a new one for a simple question. anyways heres the first one, why on the r154 do we have the cover and clutch on the input shaft instead of the common way during install? second, not trying to sound stupid but is the spring side of the clutch facing the flywheel or the trans?

 

[arz]

Im pretty sure you havent tried to pull the clutch fork out.

Tyr this, remove the slave cylinder and hold on to the clutch fork and yank it straight out as if it were a knife stuck in a pig. That might answer a few questions for you.

Also if you didnt already figure it out, the thicker portion of the clutch with the sprung hub goes "aft" on the vehicle (away from the flywheel). I think this very post says it here and in other posts.

This is a "pull" style clutch, not a "push" style. If your asking your buddy thats done the most amount of clutches on american cars (or NOT supras) chances are you will install the clutch backwards.:icon_bigg