hey, would the stock ecu pull timing if it didnt see an o2 sensor?
single guys, how do u run the stock flanged o2 sensor on the downpipe?
single guys, how do u run the stock flanged o2 sensor on the downpipe?
no o2 sensor
- Thread starter boostindoo
- Start date
you can get the flange from bic.. he has a section on this site
it wont run well at all without the o2 sensor..
it wont run well at all without the o2 sensor..
thanks man. the funny thing is my car does run well, just doesnt make the power and gets crap for gas mileage. it didnt trigger my cel, but i checked it anyways and 21 came up. i think its pulling my timing though, weird.
thats prolly cause it thinks its running very lean so its retarding timing so you dont blow up yur damn motor
i know mine with no 02 it only ran for 3 seconds and shut off. soo i dont even know how yur driving it with out one
i dont know also. it really drives normally until i get on it, it doesnt want to make power. i dont know why they took it off. i have a wb, but thats not hooked up to the ecu. and i have to pay these people.
how could i extend the o2 btw? im gonna get a flange from bic and put it on the dp somewhere. hopefully this fixes everything.
how could i extend the o2 btw? im gonna get a flange from bic and put it on the dp somewhere. hopefully this fixes everything.
i think the 02 uses shielded cable??? not too sure. but the reason it sucks when you get on it is cause its in limp mode 24/7 i would imagine
just got a universal toyota 4wire from bosch. it comes with pretty cool connectors so that u dont get a crappy signal i guess.
come to think of it, the car did run and idle like crap for a few days after the swap. we thought it was bad gas.
searching for o2 wire colors now.
come to think of it, the car did run and idle like crap for a few days after the swap. we thought it was bad gas.
searching for o2 wire colors now.
It should run better without the sensor because the mixture will default slightly richer, closer to best power. Course, fuel economy will decrease. It's not going to do the cat any good either if you have one. Timing is not effected. Other than that a bad sensor should not cause any driveabilty problems at all so it'll be interesting to see whether your engine improves after you fix it. Me thinks you have other issues.
^^^
I thought though when you run leaner you yield more power but damage the engine more! like melt pistons etc.
Kind of like when i upgraded my intake to a custom short ram on my 2000 celica GTS it haves a crystal tuned MAF sensor well when i took it out of the oem platic intake and mounted it to my short ram 3" in diameter instead of factory it made a ton more power except it didnt rev as high and vvti was disabled by the computer it was in LIMP mode. dont run your car long on this mode. the 3" track was bigger then factory so the ECU thought less air was in the engine then really was causing lean condition which is why my car had more power until the ECU was backing everything off.
with out your O2 it thinks your engine is running super lean it will back off timing and throw as much fuel in there as possible it will drench your pistons in fuel then you will need to change the oil about every weak from all the fuel in it. Also as JET pointed out if you have a CAT it will clog it if it isnt glowing red and humming right now once it gets really hot the swell up and get worse and makes the car really undrivable. Just add a wideband or Factory O2 to it.
The wire is shielded but it haves a connector on it so unless the cut it off you just need the O2 to the connector.
I thought though when you run leaner you yield more power but damage the engine more! like melt pistons etc.
Kind of like when i upgraded my intake to a custom short ram on my 2000 celica GTS it haves a crystal tuned MAF sensor well when i took it out of the oem platic intake and mounted it to my short ram 3" in diameter instead of factory it made a ton more power except it didnt rev as high and vvti was disabled by the computer it was in LIMP mode. dont run your car long on this mode. the 3" track was bigger then factory so the ECU thought less air was in the engine then really was causing lean condition which is why my car had more power until the ECU was backing everything off.
with out your O2 it thinks your engine is running super lean it will back off timing and throw as much fuel in there as possible it will drench your pistons in fuel then you will need to change the oil about every weak from all the fuel in it. Also as JET pointed out if you have a CAT it will clog it if it isnt glowing red and humming right now once it gets really hot the swell up and get worse and makes the car really undrivable. Just add a wideband or Factory O2 to it.
The wire is shielded but it haves a connector on it so unless the cut it off you just need the O2 to the connector.
The sensor runs the engine at stoichiometric during steady state conditions. Power increases below stoich and falls off above. Since the engine doesn't use the sensor at WOT or during transitions that's a different story and is what I think you're referring to. In that case mixture is derived from the basic fuel calculation and the other trim sensors.
All TCCS use the same strategy. In fact all EFI systems do. The way it's implemented varies from one automaker to the next but the results are the same. The O2 sensor is not there to make the engine run "right" in the sense that without it they'll be problems. The sensor is purely an emissions device and exists for a single purpose: to serve the catalyst. It's a trim sensor and among all sensors in an EFI system has the *least* authority over how the ECU runs the engine. That it has a lot (or even most) authority is a common misconception among those who don't understand how EFI works.
I've said it before: What good would an EFI system be if every time a sensor failed the car stranded you or ran very badly? Other than the two critical inputs of speed and load the ECU is programmed to compensate for bad sensors. It can do this very well without the O2 sensor because it does it all the time during transitions. On Toyota vehicles loss of O2 sensor input results in a slight enriching of the mixture. You should not notice anything other than decreased fuel economy. If you doubt this spend some time with a gas analyzer on the engine while deliberately inducing various faults. Course, I'm talking about how the engine works stock. Mod it and you're on your own.
Put another way the ECU is more than capable of controlling the mixture to a high degree of accuracy without the sensor connected. Just not high enough to keep the catalyst happy. It's one reason I'm amused by people who yank other emissions gear off but never advocate removing the O2 sensor.
All TCCS use the same strategy. In fact all EFI systems do. The way it's implemented varies from one automaker to the next but the results are the same. The O2 sensor is not there to make the engine run "right" in the sense that without it they'll be problems. The sensor is purely an emissions device and exists for a single purpose: to serve the catalyst. It's a trim sensor and among all sensors in an EFI system has the *least* authority over how the ECU runs the engine. That it has a lot (or even most) authority is a common misconception among those who don't understand how EFI works.
I've said it before: What good would an EFI system be if every time a sensor failed the car stranded you or ran very badly? Other than the two critical inputs of speed and load the ECU is programmed to compensate for bad sensors. It can do this very well without the O2 sensor because it does it all the time during transitions. On Toyota vehicles loss of O2 sensor input results in a slight enriching of the mixture. You should not notice anything other than decreased fuel economy. If you doubt this spend some time with a gas analyzer on the engine while deliberately inducing various faults. Course, I'm talking about how the engine works stock. Mod it and you're on your own.
Put another way the ECU is more than capable of controlling the mixture to a high degree of accuracy without the sensor connected. Just not high enough to keep the catalyst happy. It's one reason I'm amused by people who yank other emissions gear off but never advocate removing the O2 sensor.
Evilempire1.3JZ-GTE said:
Correct, most power is being made around 12 to 12.5 A/F, but your engine won't survive. The only reason to dump in more fuel is to cool things down.
I'm talking pump gas here.
How is that correct? 12 to 12.5 is richer, not leaner. Maybe I'm reading something wrong. Best power is always richer than stoich.
As for not surviving airplane engines are routinely run on the lean without problems. And that's at 75% power. WOT is a different story. My point is it's not as black and white as people make it out to be.
As for not surviving airplane engines are routinely run on the lean without problems. And that's at 75% power. WOT is a different story. My point is it's not as black and white as people make it out to be.
I ran without one for a while when I didn't notice it was not plugged in. It smelt like gas at idle because it was rich, but it ran fine.
well, it might be my imagination, but my car is running better. the butt dyno says it is running quite a bit better. i noticed that the idle and part throttle is running more lean, towards stoich. before it would run about 13. the midrange is a whole lot better. maybe thats why it feels so much better. well, im boosting about 11.2lbs, and its consistent, everything feels pretty good. gonna hit the dyno soon to get a baseline, again. i thought the car would be in limp mode jetjock, guess not. oh well, id rather have a working o2 than not.
oh another thing im assuming i hooked it up correctly but would like verification.
bosch o2:black signal
white heater no polarity
white heater no polarity
grey optional ground
stock plug:white signal
black/pink heater +
pink/blue heater -
for the heater wires, i just hooked up whatever because the bosch's didnt have polarity. and i just grounded the ground since i dont have a ground on stock plug. sounds okay guys. thanks.
bosch o2:black signal
white heater no polarity
white heater no polarity
grey optional ground
stock plug:white signal
black/pink heater +
pink/blue heater -
for the heater wires, i just hooked up whatever because the bosch's didnt have polarity. and i just grounded the ground since i dont have a ground on stock plug. sounds okay guys. thanks.
jetjock said:
I was referring to conditions outside closed loop and when putting max. load on the engine. The 12 to 12.5 where you make best power is then leaner than the 10.5 or even richer most people run at say 75% throttle and up, but an engine won't survive this. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
And yes, you also can run leaner @ 75% throttle in a car without destroying the engine, it has to do with load. If you're 'cruizing' (more like speeding, ha ha!) at 75% throttle (like an airplane flying) you're not putting that big a load on the engine for it to need the extra fuel for cooling.
boostindoo said:
Top of my head I'd say black is ground and grey is your signal, but I need to check that. (I'm running the same bosch O2)
all i know is when my o2 sensor wasn't wired up correctly (basically no o2 sensor) my car ran like complete shit. barely idled and fouled 2 sets of plugs in 3 hrs