My Very Own "Blue Smoke at Start Up" Thread

[Shytheed Dumas]

I've searched this, and found some common ideas, but almost never when somebody completely worked the issue out. So without further ado, here's what I've done so far:

1 1/2 years ago: BHG repair, rebuilt head, new valve stem seals done by a reputable machine shop.

~ 2 months ago: Little bit of blue smoke at start up. Probably a mistake, but started with Castrol Syntec oil after BHG repair and switched to Mobil 1 about 9 months ago. Dyno'd only 214 whp with the mods in my sig, minus untuned SAFC and turbo upgrade.

~ 1 1/2 months ago: Replacement stock IC completely cleaned up with gasoline with straightened fins. Running rich as hell, as it turns out from boost leaks my noobiness didn't recognize. By now I've noticed that a day of sitting will produce a little blue smoke, and several days or more will give me a big plume that will disappear over a few minutes of running.

One Week Ago: Brand new CT26-57 rebuild installed by MDC himself. I thought new turbo seals would fix the smoke problem, but there is literally zero change from 1 1/2 months ago. As far as power goes, the car is pulling harder than ever, and the bosch bpv sounds right for the first time ever.

So, in the past 1 1/2 years I've had new valve stem seals, new IC, and BRAND NEW rebuilt turbo installed by the best possible installer, and no improvement.

Based on what I've read, this leads me to a couple of possiblities:

1. Rings? I don't get this, since it only happens after the engine has sat for a while.

2. PCV system. This is a complete mystery to a Supra 1st Grader like myself. What exactly would be wrong? What exactly would I do to diagnose the root cause? What exactly would I do to fix it? I REALLY would like to see these questions answered. I understand the purpose of the PCV system, but I have yet to see a complete set of diagnostic and repair steps. Help??

 

[suprahero]

Sorry to hear this Kurt. I'm way too sleepy right now to read all of it and I'm not a mechanic anyways. I'll read it tomorrow and see that someone has offered some reputable advice. Good night and good luck.

 

[Ckanderson]

So, in the past 1 1/2 years I've had new valve stem seals,

Did they replace the guides?

 

[Fuzz420]

Welcome to the club.I get a cloud of smoke on cold startup.Since you already have new valve stem seals, your valves may need re adjustment, thats my uneducated guess

Ot: You got an upgraded ct now, i remember vaguely telling you at the last meet that you had an upgraded ct in your future.You said no, but i was right

 

[suprahero]

^ a thread about smoke and look who shows up...............:biglaugh:

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

Jay - Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully things won't get worse before they get better, but for others reading this: Here's your warning on 'JDM swaps'.

CK - I couldn't tell you whether they did the guides or not. I am certain that the seals were part of the deal, tho

Fuzz - The thing about the valves is that they were supposed to be adjusted with new seals when I sent the head to the machine shop. No smoke at all for over a year and then all of a sudden a little bit turns into a bunch if it's had enough time to sit, which leaves me wondering what in the valves/head could go wrong that fast? Regardless, you were dead on about the turbo, and it's one of the best things I've done yet.

 

[Ckanderson]

CK - I couldn't tell you whether they did the guides or not. I am certain that the seals were part of the deal, tho

I had valve stem seals replaced on my 7m and within a month and a half they started leaking again.

I was told because the guides wern't replaced thats why they were smoking again.

Weather or not thats true, I'm not sure.

 

[Fuzz420]

Jay-You know the old saying: when theres smoke theres "fire"

 

[suprahero]

Jay-You know the old saying: where theres smoke theres "fire"

I always see alot of smoke coming from the Louisville direction.............:biglaugh:

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

CK - Can guides be replaced without pulling the head, like seals? I can't stand the thought of pulling the farging head again, but I want this fixed! I'll take a look at the TSRM in the meantime.

Does anybody have anything to say about a properly working PCV system? What goes wrong, how is it diagnosed, and what can you do to fix it?

EDIT: I just remembered - I pulled plug wires #5 and #6 tonight and both were bone dry. Absolutely NO leakage from the cam covers...

 

[Kylar27]

If I remember correctly

Smoke on startup = seals/guides
Smoke on deceleration= guides
Smoke on acceleration= piston rings

Thats assuming the turbo is ok, and there is no other liquid getting in the combustion chamber/exhaust flow.

And no I dont think the guides can be replaced with the head on the car, I know the seals can be tho.

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

Right you are, Kylar. TSRM says the head's got to come off to check/replace the guides.

I hate to ::dead horse:: , but lets go back to the PCV system. My PCV pipes are FULL of sludge, and I'm still lost as to what causes this, whether this is really causing my blue smoke problem, what the root causes are, and what needs to be done to fix it. I also have a pretty good coat of oil in all of my IC pipes, which seems to indicate blow by and a PCV issue.

I have seen almost every conceivable system covered in detail on SM with the exception of this system. I'm not ruling out my valve guides because it's lookingl like a good possibility, but can anybody take me through the PCV system in detail? If a good answer doesn't come through in this thread, I think I'll dedicate a Q&A thread on that topic. Anybody?

 

[3p141592654]

I replaced my valve seals 18 months ago and my puff of smoke at startup went away completely. Also, my oil consumption went from >1qt/1000 to <1qt/5000 miles (half of which was probably leaking on to the ground before the rebuild with all my old seals leaking like sieves!). I used Mobil 1 5w-30 right from the start too.

Some thoughts. Did you use Toyota seals, or something else? I used Toyota ones. Also, seals can get cut on the sharp edges of the valve stem if your not careful during installation. Finally, my guides were within spec so I didn't replace them either.

The PCV is primarily dealing with blowby past the rings into the crankcase. If you have lots of blowby, then a leakdown test should be done to check their condition.

 

[johnathan1]

My car does this as well...if it is sitting for even a few hours. I will start it and it will be fine for about a minute or two...no smoke...then all of the sudden it will start smoking pretty badly, and it smells like oil burning...If i rev the engine a few times, the smoke clears up within about 30 seconds, and doesn't come back until the next cold start...

Of course, the first thought would be that my valve stem seals are leaking...but I replaced them when I replaced my head gasket, so I couldn't imagine that those are leaking already the smoke started after about 5k miles and about 8 months after I replaced the head gasket...

So I'm about to replace my CT with a 57 trim...LOL Hopefully that will clear up the problem...because I've noticed that when boosting on the freeway with the top off, I can smell burning oil for a minute or so after a sustained boost.

Also, if I turn off the car when it's smoking, smoke will waft from around the exhaust tip for about 10 minutes...almost like there is oil in the exhaust piping that is simmering and burning off even after the engine has been turned off...not sure if that means anything...

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

3p, etc: Actually I forgot to give the shop my Toyota seals and by the time I called them to say I was going to drop them off they had already installed new ones, so they are probably not Toyota.

I'm going to buy an engine stand today and start tearing down the other block in my garage so I've at least got a replacement engine started. I'm just not happy with the blow by, and apparently whoever owned the car before me NEVER changed the coolant, because there is a goodly amount of corrosion. In the meantime I'll keep driving it, but...



TIME FOR A POLL ALL YOU BLUE SMOKE ON START UP SUPRA OWNERS:

Aaron, Jonathon, everybody: How long have you had this issue, and how long do you plan to keep driving with the smoke problem?

 

[JB91389]

I've had this issue for the past couple of months...I'm with you shytheed- still trying to figure out the problem

 

[89TurboPC]

TIME FOR A POLL ALL YOU BLUE SMOKE ON START UP SUPRA OWNERS:

No need for a poll. It's the Supra's signature.

 

[Fuzz420]

Kurt-Ive had my puff of smoke for about a year now.It started off with very little now its nice size puff on start up. Until recently i had no plans of really fixing it, but since i have pistons on the way(probe),ill be fixing it when i do the bottom end. Ive been quoted already on a complete head rebuild already that includes brand new stock components, p&p, and valve job.

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Kurt, running mobil one - You should get that problem fixed. Mobil one has a horrible habit of leaving a hard, white, ceramic coating on every thing it touches when burnt.

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

I'm seriously considering a rebuild on the original engine, Jon, and it keeps looking like $1500 to $2000 with me doing the work.

The only other thing that I know to try is to replace the valve stem seals with the extra set I have, but if the guides are the problem then what? Should I switch to another oil while I figure out what to do?

I just can't see pulling the head to do the guides without rebuilding the block and doing it right with a MHG this time, but the $$$$! :cry: