MSD DIS 4 troubles

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TargaMK3Turbo

Money pit thats worth it!
Jun 11, 2007
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Lambertville, MI
So... I bought a MSD DIS 4 so I could use it for the 2-step feature for my 7M-GTE MK3. I had Accelerated Performance (Defcon Motorsports) install it. They called back saying they are having some ignition troubles.
They plug wires I have a new, NGK's.

They said They are havin trouble getting all the coils to fire, said something about how I might need to go with 3 GM coils...

I'm sorry as this is all the info I can give that I understand....

Does anyone have any input on how the MSD DIS 4 is set up for 2-stepping? Like, whats needed?

Thanks all!
 
MK3Brent

MK3Brent

Very expensive....
Aug 1, 2005
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The DIS4 won't work on the stock coils that are 15-20 years old.

You'll need to update them to a GM tower style for example.

They're like 60 some each, and wire in just like stock.
 
T

TargaMK3Turbo

Money pit thats worth it!
Jun 11, 2007
235
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Lambertville, MI
MK3Brent said:
The DIS4 won't work on the stock coils that are 15-20 years old.

You'll need to update them to a GM tower style for example.

They're like 60 some each, and wire in just like stock.
Click to expand...

Which GM coils? That way I can show tell them and they can order em.

Also, is that it? Just the GM coils?
 
I

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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Targa: I would.....

A few years back I had an injector lay down on the dyno and torch a hole through a piston pressurising the crankcase and pumping 2>3 Qt's of Oil into the IC.

I was running 2 x Dis 4's with the MSD CDI Coils and drove the car 50 Km's home with Oil dripping from the tailpipe, I got home pulled the plugs and could see Oil in the piston dishes in ALL cylinder, degreased the Engine Bay hosed it off and prepared to winch it into the shed not expecting it to run again.

I figured "hey give it a try" cranked it and it fired like normal!! :aigo:

I believe the Dis4 would fire a plug in a cup of Oil so the very best leads are needed.
 
joliroger4

joliroger4

Flying Dutchman Pilot
Apr 4, 2005
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When you install it with just the tach adapters the car will most likely run on all cylinders but have an intermittent mis if everything is setup properly. So if the shop has 0 spark on certain cylinders there is either a defective component or they wired it wrong, neither of which would surprise me.

The stock coils will arc off any ground under the hood. Run the engine in pitch black and watch the coils closely and you can see the dim purple arcs hitting every ground close to the coils. I tried 3 different coil packs one off a 92 with 42k miles all with the same result. The stock coils are a waste of time with the DIS-4.

The next thing you want to do is send the MSD back to have it updated with what is called V4 if it does not already have this. It solves a high RPM misfire problem in both supras and neons. You may not have to do this with newer DIS-4s but the ones I got over a year ago still did not have this update and both had a high rpm misfire without it. Call MSD give them your serial number and let them tell you if this update has been performed. Some of their "technicians" wont even know what this update is. You have to be assertive with them and find a tech that does know what this is or go to their supervisor.
 
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joliroger4

joliroger4

Flying Dutchman Pilot
Apr 4, 2005
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As far as installing the coils go buy the gm terminal ends from summit and a crimp tool. I took my NGK wire set I was using on my car, and delicately removed the rubber boot with a razor, careful to not damage the actual wire at all on the end that goes to the coils and delicately uncrimped the terminal end from the wire. Now use a pair of needle nose pliers to get things started and the crimp tool to finish off the crimp of the new terminal end. Now install the new rubber boot. It helps to have some silicone lubricant spray as well to clean the wires and ease the install of the boots. Also pay attention to the orientation of the boot. The coil boot should point in the opposite direction of the spark plug boot so you don't have to twist the wire when you install it on the car. It should point in the same direction as the old boot so an easy way to do this is just mark on the wire which way the old boot is pointing before removing it. Wires came out great and the resistance is identical from before I swapped over the ends.

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...400105+4294756594+4294844024+115&autoview=sku

However if the shop is saying your plug wires are the reason certain cylinders have no spark, they are most likely wrong about that if the car ran fine before they put in the MSD.

To wire in the trigger wires for the coils just cut off the coil connectors and install spades. Make sure the two wires that fired 1 and 6 are still connected to a coil that the 1 and 6 plug wires go to. 3-4 still fire 3-4 and 2-5 still fire 2-5. All that is left is to make a mounting bracket for them then.

Very straight forward job and the car will run off these coils just fine if you ever remove the msd from the system. Its less than $150 for new better than stock coil pack, way cheaper than a new toyota one and way better than a used 20 year old one.
 
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T

TargaMK3Turbo

Money pit thats worth it!
Jun 11, 2007
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Lambertville, MI
how should I engage the 2 step? I mean, to use it.
I thought of hooking it up to the clutch but I'm not sure what it'll do when I shift. a push button seems easiest.
 
joliroger4

joliroger4

Flying Dutchman Pilot
Apr 4, 2005
264
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New Jersey
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I used a latching relay run through the clutch safety switch. This worked perfectly because I already had that switched bypassed, so it was sitting there doing nothing until I did this. You can use a standard relay for this.

The reason you want to do this is because if you just ran through the clutch switch the car would turn the rev limiter on between every shift. Using the latching relay will allow you to have the 2-step active only on launch but not while banging through the gears. To operate the setup push the clutch in. The rev limiter will not be engaged. Push the momentary button and let it go. You will hear the relay click and the 2-step will now be engaged even though you have let the momentary switch up. When you let the clutch out the 2-step will shut off because the clutch switch will kill it. When you push the clutch back in, it will not come back on. Long story short the clutch must be in while the momentary button is tapped in order to engage the 2-step.


Attached is how to wire a standard normally open relay to run as a latching relay. The only difference between a latching relay and a standard relay is that the jumper shown in the image is internal on the latching relay. This is for a DIS-X PLUS unit, the one with the rotary dials. It uses 12V as a trigger. The older DIS-X units with dip switches used a ground as the trigger so it would require the wiring to be changed to suite ground trigger.
 

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T

TargaMK3Turbo

Money pit thats worth it!
Jun 11, 2007
235
0
0
38
Lambertville, MI
joliroger4 said:
I used a latching relay run through the clutch safety switch. This worked perfectly because I already had that switched bypassed, so it was sitting there doing nothing until I did this. You can use a standard relay for this.

The reason you want to do this is because if you just ran through the clutch switch the car would turn the rev limiter on between every shift. Using the latching relay will allow you to have the 2-step active only on launch but not while banging through the gears. To operate the setup push the clutch in. The rev limiter will not be engaged. Push the momentary button and let it go. You will hear the relay click and the 2-step will now be engaged even though you have let the momentary switch up. When you let the clutch out the 2-step will shut off because the clutch switch will kill it. When you push the clutch back in, it will not come back on. Long story short the clutch must be in while the momentary button is tapped in order to engage the 2-step.


Attached is how to wire a standard normally open relay to run as a latching relay. The only difference between a latching relay and a standard relay is that the jumper shown in the image is internal on the latching relay. This is for a DIS-X PLUS unit, the one with the rotary dials. It uses 12V as a trigger. The older DIS-X units with dip switches used a ground as the trigger so it would require the wiring to be changed to suite ground trigger.
Click to expand...

Your my hero! Thanks alot!!!
 
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