Katrina Relief Efforts Not Quick Enough? Pffft..

drunk_medic

7Ms are for Cressidas
Apr 1, 2005
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Jack Kelly: No shame
The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed

It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.

"Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever during a dire national emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob Herbert in a somewhat more strident expression of the conventional wisdom.

But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 2002. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.

Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.

So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.

A week and a day after the main levee protecting New Orleans breached. In the course of that week:

More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops by Coast Guard helicopters.

The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans.

Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000 refugees.

Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought:

"We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering.

"The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and impassable road network.

"You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.

"No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts."

"You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear somewhere," van Steenwyk said.

Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.

Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently), this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the weight of heavily laden trucks.

And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states.

Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it took four days before most people were evacuated from the Louisiana Superdome.

The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven from Houston to New Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones arrived Wednesday evening. That seems pretty fast to me.

A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?





Food for thought.
-DM
 

mkiiSupraMan18

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Apr 1, 2005
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no offense, but is all of that fact?

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 2002. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.

Mostly what I'm concerned with...... damn..... I never would have even thought to compare previous storms......... But my opinion is that everyone should have left..... just my $.02
 

Anomili

Obsessed
Apr 9, 2005
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I watched the original press conference live right after things were put in motion. Now, I am not a Bush fan, but I do have to say that I thought that they were doing a good job. At least, in their planning phase. I agree 100% with everything you said. I thought I would add, however, that the press hasn't really cared about the truth since someone figured out way back when that they could make money off telling stories. The major question I asked myself when hearing the news was: What is ultimately going to sell papers/tv time? Bad News sells more papers. If uneffected people in New York woke up and read a paper that said "Bush Does Excellent Job", "Thousands Saved From Rooftops", or "Military Engineers Repair Levee in Record Time", they would be reassured and probably ignore the news at 10. However, when they wake up to "Government Fucks Up" or "Military Overseas, No One to Help" their curiosity will be far greater and they are more likely to follow every single story from every single source.

Hence, it is clearly in the best interest of the media to portray the government as being inept. The only real way to deal with this annoyance is to realise that there are many educated people out there who are probably going to think about what they read.

Dave
 
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lanky189

Guest
mkiiSupraMan18 said:
.. But my opinion is that everyone should have left..... just my $.02

Yeah... what part of "Mandatory Evacuation" did these people not understand?
 

Anomili

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I'd assume that the people that stayed were perhaps those with no cars/van with which to leave. I really don't know much on that matter, but it was probably a lot harder for people with no means of transportation to leave the area.


Dave
 

drunk_medic

7Ms are for Cressidas
Apr 1, 2005
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One thing I urge in this post is that people do not get out of line and start insulting each other. I enjoyed the last post until it was shut down. I believe that it stimulated a bit of intellectual thought, and I like to see that on our forum; I know that we aren't all womanizing gear-heads, we aren't all JDM Tyte rice kids, and we aren't snobby a-holes just because we own some of the best looking and most powerful Japanese cars of their time and current times, and I feel better seeing that proved. Please keep this thread civil, and keep it going.
 

lagged

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Mar 30, 2005
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lanky189 said:
Yeah... what part of "Mandatory Evacuation" did these people not understand?

some people had no way of leaving. you expect them to walk? people dirt poor with famlies, small children. these are a large part of the people who couldnt leave.

if the state said the evac was mandatory, they should have provided buses days before.

the hurricane it self was a tragedy, and what happend after, the response of their state and our government was a disgrace. end of story.
 

drunk_medic

7Ms are for Cressidas
Apr 1, 2005
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lagged said:
some people had no way of leaving. you expect them to walk?

You're damn right! Walk!

I was evacuated to repair aircraft that went to Kentucky. My wife was with her family IN PENSACOLA during hurricane Ivan. When I lost all contact with her, I went to the local survival store, bought a load bearing vest and survival equipment. Upon return, I was ready to walk the 50 miles to Pensacola to find her. I had equipment to scale small obstacles and keep safe. I was ready to dig my swim fins out of the garage in case I had to swim across the channel because of the wrecked bridge across Hwy 98 I was saw on TV.
People do what they have to in order to survive and ensure the safety of their loved ones. What I did had nothing to do with stealing electronics or expensive shoes, but I was ready to go the distance.
For next evacuation, I'll be sure to have firearms.
 

drunk_medic

7Ms are for Cressidas
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I'm not sure - maybe the Governor or Mayors did not authorize it, or did not have the foresight to organize it. Maybe they are just no good at managing logistics and mobility?
 

SP 7M

Use your GUY instinct
Apr 6, 2005
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lagged said:
the hurricane it self was a tragedy, and what happend after, the response of their state and our government was a disgrace. end of story.
Yeah, fuck the facts, right?

Anomili-When is the liberal-biased media ever concerned with the facts? You're right, they're so stuck on selling their own BS that they'll tell anyone that bothers to watch their crap what goes along with their own agenda.

Can somebody tell me what the actual current death toll of our military men and women in Iraq is? Really, I don't know it right now. Anyway, my eyes have been opened to a very interesting detail by the writings of Mike Savage. That is that the news channels are reminding everyone daily how bad the death toll is in Iraq and even make it seem so bad when we just have 2 servicemen or women killed in one day. Yet there is no auto accident death toll that they show you every day, which is roughly 120 Americans per day. Yes, it's horrible that we have members of our great military dying. Every death makes it one more too many but the risk of death for the good of our country is something that everybody that has joined the military accepts. Nobody joins the military and asks for the guarantee that they will make it through their time alive.
 

mkiiSupraMan18

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Apr 1, 2005
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If I could have joined, I would have, I'd still go over if they would have let me do something that I felt was for the good of the nation, and not as a truck driver. No offense to those who are in transport at all, I understand all the crapp they gotta do, but damn, call me an ass, but I've got a helluva lot more to offer that they wouldn't let me..... I'm sure someone in the services is gonna rip me, but I'm just saying how I feel. If they'd let me do something that I had originally wanted to do, maybe something in the "med feild" now, I'd go to Iraq, no second thoughts......
 

Anomili

Obsessed
Apr 9, 2005
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drunk_medic said:
For next evacuation, I'll be sure to have firearms.

It wouldn't do you much good. I recently heard that the government is siezing all firearms in an attempt to "maintain control." I'm not getting into my own personal opinion, just stating the facts as I've heard them. Last I heard the NRA was going nuts.

Dave
 

SP 7M

Use your GUY instinct
Apr 6, 2005
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Anomili-The "facts," as you hear them, are very often not facts. That is what I was trying to get across in my last post.

Not to say that it won't happen, but the task of seizing all firearms throughout the country would most likely be a very difficult task for the government.
 

Justin727

T-virus infected
there was some help sent that way and even tho the media doesnt show or tell the whole truth I had a buddy with 3 trailors full of cold water go there drop off supplies and came back with a few bullets in each trailor.
Yall tell me would you want to help people that shoot at you to thank you? After the storm there were a few ways out and a bridge people could have WALKED OVER to get out... I know because I drove there to save a friends family with him. We loaded up with an armory from the pawn shop and drove over there! got to his brother and father whom were stranded in the attic and drove them out. There were dead people on the street and a shit full of looters.. Choppers were getting shot at and people were just out of control there. They had a chance to WALK out but didnt. There were trucks at this bridge that would not go in because they didnt have any armed presence and the 2 cops with them did not advise them to drive in because fear of getting over run by the people of the city. Those people probably would have lost their lives trying to distribute food and water to those savages. Not only that but the police had a hard enough time tryin to get these people under control. They just couldn't.
Although i personally think threads like this shouldnt have been started because No one can actually say what it was like because they weren't there and we all know the media is full of it most of the time. But i was there and know alot of people around and from new orleans.
Sure the mayor could have organized it alot better. They tried the bus method with what little busses they had left but a riot broke out. I'm sorry but having a bunch of crazed people that just want to cause trouble and get everyone excited is just stupid and to risk life and limb for those people that could have easily walked out is crazy. now the elderly and ill people that couldnt walk needed the busses along with the children and there mother or father. I think these threads should end because this storm is the worst thats hit the coast for years. worst then Camille that hit in 69 and it was a catagory 5 as well.
 
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lanky189

Guest
lagged said:
some people had no way of leaving. you expect them to walk? people dirt poor with famlies, small children. these are a large part of the people who couldnt leave.

if the state said the evac was mandatory, they should have provided buses days before.

the hurricane it self was a tragedy, and what happend after, the response of their state and our government was a disgrace. end of story.


i agree..cept when you say OUR government..its not the fed's job.....the state governemnt should be taking care the evac..not the feds..
 

Anomili

Obsessed
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SP 7M said:
Anomili-The "facts," as you hear them, are very often not facts. That is what I was trying to get across in my last post.

I agree 100% with your post. That is why in my previous post I made sure to note that I was using facts "as I'd heard them". I agree that I am basing everything off of the media which I trashed in my first post. However, just because one has no faith in the media doesn't mean that they can't form a valid opinion. At the same time the opinion may be entirely scewed because you are dealing with the subjectivity inherent in your sources (aka Media wants money.)

Also, I never said that I thought the plan would ever remotely work (I left personal views out of it.)

Your point is well taken.

Dave