Increasing Idle A/C Performance?

[tissimo]

I'm looking to improve my A/C performance at idle. My system has been filled with r134 for 2+ years now and and works good except at idle. If you sit at idle the air is midly cool (probably ~ 75*) and with no tint and black leather in FL = fail, hahah (I will get tint eventually, just been lazy, lol).

After a bit of a drive (15-20 minutes to warm everything up), if you sit at idle for a few minutes (5 or so), the A/C will actually turn its self off. I assume its the pressures are going to high or something and flipping it off. I think its due to a lack of flow across the condenser, but I have all the factory ducting, and good condition fan shroud and all with a very tight clutch fan. I don't think its the coolant temp switch but will eliminate it this weekend (bypass it) just to be sure.

I will investigate this more this weekend, but has anyone had a similar issue and if so how did you fix it?

The R134 works great when reving or moving, with vent temps probably around 50* or so, just idle sucks balls.

 

[gennro]

Do you still have the stock A/C fans hooked up?

 

[Xx 87supra t xX]

Check out this ebay link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/R12-Industrial-...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d27e57386

I plan on using it in my car once I get it going fully in a couple weeks. I bought the R22A they sell for my house and it made a huge differences in cooling I went from about 15 degree ambient house temp vs. temp from vent, to about 21 degrees with a swap of Freon. That was with a fully serviced system drained, vacuumed and reserviced. Plus the r12A it’s only 8 - 9 bucks a can. R -134a retro just don’t work that well because the cooling efficiency is just not as good. We have done r134a conversion on airplanes and swapped back because it went from blowing at 49 degrees with r 12 to 58 on a hot FL day Average temp taken was with outside temp at 85-90. Cabin temp 73 with R12 and 78 with R134a. It lost almost 9 degrees out of the vent. Simply explained we could only get the cabin to about 78 with r 134a and that was with it running about 15 mins to forever. With in 10 mins with R 12 it was at 73 and would keep getting colder if we let it. Alot has to do with the sizing of condenser and lines. If you notice r12 lines are usually smaller R 134a lines are bigger in diameter. Thats why when your cruzing around town you have all the ram air cooling the condensor and you get the 50 degree out the vent. At a stop the little AC fan we have is not going to do a damn thing. Then the lines come into play at idle with the tiny lines = flow is not there. Even if your pressure is high you dont have the flow

Ill post results of the Freon once I get them.

 

[Heavy D]

i get the same problem, once i sit at a red light for a few min, it warms up, but if i take back roads with steady 40-50mph or the hgihway its super cold, but now i dont have to worry any more since the a/c compressor fried up on me, started to burn up and shot rubber out the clutch and into my fan.

 

[3p141592654]

I wouldn't advise getting near it with R22 in it! If the condensing temp exceeds 50C it will make for a nice bomb!


For the OP, does the car have the front pusher fan?

 

[Poodles]

If it's the coolant temp switch, that means your coolant system isn't up to par. More than likely it's the high pressure switch if it's not the coolant temp switch. Install a pusher fan to help if that's the case...

 

[tissimo]

Car is an auto and has both puller fans and a pusher fan.

Its a possibility its the cooling system (temp switch is at like 215 iirc not very high), but a slim one... I'll by pass it this weekend and test

I assume the only real solution is to go back to R12 though right? A buddys father has like 400lbs of the stuff, so getting it isn't a huge deal, but any thing I should do before converting back to R12 from 134a?

 

[Dirgle]

If all your fans are in working order. I would say you should get a parallel flow type AC condenser. Most modern R134 systems run these.

http://www.partstrain.com/store/det.../Turbo/6_Cyl_3-dot-0L/P39293P.html?vdesc=true

I've got one on order and I hope it works well in the coming California heat.

 

[reydio]

^^^ yep, if you have not changed your condenser, change to parallel flow type for the R134.

 

[Xx 87supra t xX]

I wouldn't advise getting near it with R22 in it! If the condensing temp exceeds 50C it will make for a nice bomb!


For the OP, does the car have the front pusher fan?

Read the post I said I used that for my house. I was recommending R12A for a replacement from the same company.:3d_frown:

 

[3p141592654]

Yeah sorry, my bad.. Your post is confusing.

 

[jetjock]

It is confusing. Furthermore the very fact he'd consider using ES12a in his car shows he knows little about refrigerants or MVAC. Not only is it illegal but it's dangerous. As a long time holder of 609 and 608 Universal certificates who has been working with refrigeration systems of all kinds for most of his life I strongly recommend any AC advice given by him on this forum be ignored. And as a pilot and aircraft owner I sure as hell hope he doesn't hold an A&P certificate...

 

[gennro]

It is confusing. Furthermore the very fact he'd consider using ES12a in his car shows he knows little about refrigerants or MVAC. Not only is it illegal but it's dangerous. As a long time holder of 609 and 608 Universal certificates who has been working with refrigeration systems of all kinds for most of his life I strongly recommend any AC advice given by him on this forum be ignored. And as a pilot and aircraft owner I sure as hell hope he doesn't hold an A&P certificate...

Whats wrong with ES-12 jetjock?

 

[jetjock]

HC based. Propane and/or butane iirc. Illegal in the US. Not that these substances don't make decent refrigerants because they do, just that you shouldn't use them. Not to mention if someone is dumb enough to put propane in the car they could simply go to the store and buy it for less money...

 

[gennro]

Ok so nothing wrong with using it? Wonder why you can buy it in the US though if it is illegal.

Just trying to learn something here if anything. Would be really nice if there was a write up on SM for A/C systems and stickied.

 

[jetjock]

The EPA doesn't have the time or resources to chase everyone down

You don't understand what propane/butane are? There's plenty wrong with using it. First, it's flammable. Second, there's not a shop that'll touch the car after it's in there. Third, if the system isn't properly prepared it will lunch the compressor down the road and cost you a bundle. I could go on. And was there some part of illegal you didn't you understand?

 

[Poodles]

Spring a leak, car goes up in flames...

 

[gennro]

The EPA doesn't have the time or resources to chase everyone down

You don't understand what propane/butane are? There's plenty wrong with using it. First, it's flammable. Second, there's not a shop that'll touch the car after it's in there. Third, if the system isn't properly prepared it will lunch the compressor down the road and cost you a bundle. I could go on. And was there some part of illegal you didn't you understand?

Don't talk to me like I am an idiot, I'm only learning. I know what propane and butane is I'm just wanting to learn is all and if you don't want to share your knowledge then fine then. You just seem to be a very knowledgeable person on the forum so I figure I would ask the questions and everyone can learn from it.

 

[jetjock]

Ask idiot questions and you'll get idiot answers. And I would think someone old enough to drive would be beyond the learning stage of what "illegal" means.

Other concerns aside the HC blends have limited flammability as long as they're used correctly. Problem is many people don't. And there are better, legal choices for alternatives.

Myself, I stick with CFC-12. Nothing works better in a system designed for it and if the system was properly prepared it's not that expensive because the system lasts a long time. I had to mess with mine only once in 22 years. In fact I didn't still have another car that uses R12 I would get rid of the 25 pounds or so of it I still have.

 

[gennro]

Ask idiot questions and you'll get idiot answers. And I would think someone old enough to drive would be beyond the learning stage of what "illegal" means.

Other concerns aside the HC blends have limited flammability as long as they're used correctly. Problem is many people don't. And there are better, legal choices for alternatives.

Myself, I stick with CFC-12. Nothing works better in a system designed for it and if the system was properly prepared it's not that expensive because the system lasts a long time. I had to mess with mine only once in 22 years. In fact I didn't still have another car that uses R12 I would get rid of the 25 pounds or so of it I still have.

Now that is some good information there. So I'm assuming the whole ES-12 website is misleading due to them saying that its not illegal and requires no license to use it. So really to keep within the legal aspect of things that best bet would be converting to r-134a. I'm running ES-12 as of right now and never really heard anything bad about it till today. A friend of mine uses it and never had and issues with and and he says it works great the reason I started using it. Then did some research on the internet and found several other people running it and no issues. I'm not saying you are wrong cause you know how unreliable the information on the internet is. Would rather not run r-12 due to the reason of the low availability in the USA and how expensive it is.