Hi guys, I have had my ma70 supra for 6 months now, have the usual in mind for modding, all of which are lying around my house ready to go onto the car, really the only things left to buy are the intercooler, intercooler hard pipes, 3" front pipe and a fuel pump. I have already decided on the IC & piping, and would now like you help and input on deciding on the fuel pump. The car is looking to make 255rwkw, however I would be hoping a little more as my piggyback will give a better tune than the guy used who I purchased the turbo off. My modd's/parts are : 550 injectors, lexus afm, aem afpr, apexi avcr, 7mgteu Turbo A CT26, map ecu 2, 3" straight through from cat back. I had always planned on a walbro 255, however after hearing how loud they are, I was thinking of going the bosch 044 option, but the price I was quoted on this was out of budget, over double the walbro. I have heard of a few people using the 2jzgte fuel pump, and had a bit of a search and was wondering if this is ok, or if you have any other suggestions ? Your help is much appreciated. Thanks, Jon.
Help with Fuel Pump
- Thread starter LPC
- Start date
I'm interesting to see if you can hit that mark with that turbo.
The Bosche 044 pumps are LOUD, the walbro isn't nearly as loud :rofl: The stock pump for a TT MKIV supra is good as well, but it's not cheap either (and buying a used fuel pump is foolish). If you go the walbro route, buy from a reputable seller as there are exact copies floating around now from china that are of questionable quality.
The Bosche 044 pumps are LOUD, the walbro isn't nearly as loud :rofl: The stock pump for a TT MKIV supra is good as well, but it's not cheap either (and buying a used fuel pump is foolish). If you go the walbro route, buy from a reputable seller as there are exact copies floating around now from china that are of questionable quality.
Well I would get it from walbrofuelpumps.com...which im assuming would be their genuine site. The guy who had the turbo before me had all the same mods, ran 14psi and tunned it with an apexi safc and ran a 254-257, can not remember off the top of my head, but saw the dyno sheet...Thanks for the imput. Jon.
Haven't used it so I don't know how loud it is, but Autozone sells a Holley 255lph fuel pump specific to our cars for $159.99. I might be misinformed, but I was under the impression that ALL high flow pumps are at least somewhat more noisy than the stocker they replace. If it's too loud then just turn up the radio some more
Boostcraver you are on the right track with the radio, however my supra did not come with a deck so unfortunately for the moment there are two of us whining. Thats for the tip arknotts.
so unfortunately for the moment there are two of us whining. Thats for the tip arknotts.
Many people run the 2JZGTE pump which is a Denso 195130-1020. It is reliable and outperforms the walbro, but draws about double the current. Since you seem noise sensitive, you would want to retain the stock dual speed relay and resistor. See link for performance comparison http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/fuel_pumps_test_2/index.html
The MK3 low speed circuit uses a 0.7ohm resistor to drop the pump voltage from 14V to 10V (at least that is what my numbers are). That corresponds to a low speed pump current of 5.7A. The MK4 pump (based on published data from John Cribb) can be expected to draw about 10.4A at 10V with a 40psi head, about double the MK3 pump current. Therefore, my simple plan to retain the dual speed design is to put two MK3 resistors in parallel to give a 0.35 ohm resistor. That should result in a pump voltage of about 10.25V and a pump current of 10.7 A, which will be fine. The wiring is the next issue. The stock wiring for the pump is 2.0 mm diameter, which is more or less equal to 12AWG wire. This should be good for 20A for the lengths we are considering. The main issue is the 15A fuse in the EFI circuit. For 25psi boost you would expect to need 60-70 psi at the pump, which is going to be 16-17A pump current. My proposed solution to this is to rewire the COR on its own 20A fused circuit. I have not looked at the actual feasibility of doing this change, so depending on the location of junctions and so on may come up with a different plan when I actually look into it more closely. The resistance of 20ft of 12GA is 0.031 ohms, so at 17A we would expect to see a drop of about 0.5V. That would give ~13.5V at the pump, or about 210L/h at 70 psi, enough for 550CC injectors at 100% duty.
The MK3 low speed circuit uses a 0.7ohm resistor to drop the pump voltage from 14V to 10V (at least that is what my numbers are). That corresponds to a low speed pump current of 5.7A. The MK4 pump (based on published data from John Cribb) can be expected to draw about 10.4A at 10V with a 40psi head, about double the MK3 pump current. Therefore, my simple plan to retain the dual speed design is to put two MK3 resistors in parallel to give a 0.35 ohm resistor. That should result in a pump voltage of about 10.25V and a pump current of 10.7 A, which will be fine. The wiring is the next issue. The stock wiring for the pump is 2.0 mm diameter, which is more or less equal to 12AWG wire. This should be good for 20A for the lengths we are considering. The main issue is the 15A fuse in the EFI circuit. For 25psi boost you would expect to need 60-70 psi at the pump, which is going to be 16-17A pump current. My proposed solution to this is to rewire the COR on its own 20A fused circuit. I have not looked at the actual feasibility of doing this change, so depending on the location of junctions and so on may come up with a different plan when I actually look into it more closely. The resistance of 20ft of 12GA is 0.031 ohms, so at 17A we would expect to see a drop of about 0.5V. That would give ~13.5V at the pump, or about 210L/h at 70 psi, enough for 550CC injectors at 100% duty.
3p141592654;1620177 said:
Not trying to thread jack, but I have a question. Are you saying a walbro CAN be hooked up through the stock relays and connections but that the wires need to be made bigger? Is that what the "pigtail" is for? How do you do the twelve volt mod? I know you didn't mention a walbro in your reply above but we are talking about the voltage being supplied to the pump. The theory is what I'm getting at, I'm not confused about which pump you are talking about.
boostcraver;1620910 said:
No, he is talking about the ND pump for the JZA80. Toyota uses a "fuel computer" in place of our two speed system. He has designed a way to keep the two speed and have it function right with the different amps of the pump. And the needed wiring.
Nick M;1620986 said:
Please re read the entire reply that I posted and you will see that I acknowledged he wasn't talking specifically about a Walbro. He was talking about the voltage as it related to the ND pump, which I got. My question was and still is: If you put a walbro in the place of the stock pump, would you have the same issues with the voltage if you hooked it up to the stock wiring/ resistors? would the pump remain high flow if the voltage were to be less than 12v through the stock setup?
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------
Poodles;1620916 said:
Ok So now I know why people do the 12 volt mod but my original question was HOW do you do the 12v mod? As in what steps are necessary? Thanks in advance for any info you can supply.
The Walbro draws less current than the ND pump, but more than the stock pump. I suspect the reason people complain of tuning problems when they leave the stock 2 speed circuit in place is that the low-speed resistor is too large for the walbro, and it stalls under medium load at low speed. If everything works properly, the fuel pressure should be held stable by the FPR at all times before during and after the speed switch. Most of the people around here don't have the electronics background to understand the root cause of a lot of the issues that crop up with the stock system.
3p141592654;1621025 said:
Ok. So at least in theory, if a different resistor were installed for the low side it should work right? If so, what resistance should it have? I'm asking all the questions because I really don't want to go hacking my wiring to pieces and bypassing resistors and relays for the 12v mod and run the risk of a short or fire.
Today, I installed the ND 2JZGTE fuel pump. I'm keeping the two step voltage to the fuel pump (on a fully built 7MGTE). Will that be problematic?
I'm running ND 550cc injectors, Lex AFM w/ adj screw, stock TCCS, new fuel pressure relay, regulator and damper. Blitz Dual SBC type R, 50 trim CT26 with ceramic thermal barrier on turbo and compressor housings. The Supra is going on a dyno, to get a look at the AFRs, Torque and HP. Are there any adjustments the tuners can make to this set-up?
As it is now: high flowing 7M head, (from M&B Cylinder Heads), 100Lbs Comp springs, ceramic thermal barrier coatings on valve face and piston tops, and cam caps. Stock cams, Adj cam sprockets, blue printed block, w/Teflon oil shedding coating, 9.4:1 compression ratio, all forged bottom end, lightened, balanced crank, Fedanza flywheel and stock pressure plate. Eight quart sump, w/crank scraper. Three row, cross flow radiator. 1992 RX7 TT oil cooler. ARPs top and bottom, Titan MLS 2.0mm head gasket, 90 foot Lbs on the studs. Van
I'm running ND 550cc injectors, Lex AFM w/ adj screw, stock TCCS, new fuel pressure relay, regulator and damper. Blitz Dual SBC type R, 50 trim CT26 with ceramic thermal barrier on turbo and compressor housings. The Supra is going on a dyno, to get a look at the AFRs, Torque and HP. Are there any adjustments the tuners can make to this set-up?
As it is now: high flowing 7M head, (from M&B Cylinder Heads), 100Lbs Comp springs, ceramic thermal barrier coatings on valve face and piston tops, and cam caps. Stock cams, Adj cam sprockets, blue printed block, w/Teflon oil shedding coating, 9.4:1 compression ratio, all forged bottom end, lightened, balanced crank, Fedanza flywheel and stock pressure plate. Eight quart sump, w/crank scraper. Three row, cross flow radiator. 1992 RX7 TT oil cooler. ARPs top and bottom, Titan MLS 2.0mm head gasket, 90 foot Lbs on the studs. Van
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I don't have much to add other than my Walbros are not loud at all. However my Talon had an external bee's nest attached to the firewall and it was crazy loud. So I might be desensitized.
boostcraver;1620995 said:
I did that. He specifically provided all the information beforehand that you reasked, except you said....
boostcraver;1620910 said:
That isn't asking how do I get around the two speed circuit. Moving on...
Open up the EWD, it should be quite apparent. High speed is default. Low speed is when the relay is activated. Don't activate the relay. Or wire around it directly from the circuit opening relay.
Yes it will be a problem unless you cut the low-speed circuit resistance in half. The ND 2JZGTE fuel pump draws nearly double the current. You will be running around 7V under mid throttle in low-speed, the pump will not perform well.
My plan (not implemented yet) is to run two MK3 fuel pump resistors in parallel. This will cut the low-speed resistance half, and should be a good match to the new pump, while preserving its life and reducing noise and excessive heating of the fuel.
My plan (not implemented yet) is to run two MK3 fuel pump resistors in parallel. This will cut the low-speed resistance half, and should be a good match to the new pump, while preserving its life and reducing noise and excessive heating of the fuel.
Van;1621509 said:
Nick M;1621630 said:
Touche. As far as the wiring diagram goes, I have trouble understanding it because don't know what all the symbols mean. I could use a lesson or two in deciphering electrical wiring diagrams