First big build, advice?

[89whitepkg]

Ok guys I’m about to start my first major build, I’ve been reading as much as I can get my hands on lately to prepare. My goal is around 400hp, and I have about 5,000 bucks to play with. I have decided to go the forged internals route, I currently have a 1.4 MHG, and will be sticking with that set up. I’m going to get a good machine shop to take care of all the work. The thing I’ve been trying to figure out lately is exactly what I need in combination with the MAFT- pro. Can I still run my stock 440’s, and do I need to add a fuel regulator and a better fuel pump.
Secondly, as far as machining what all should I have done, I mean as far as the crank, the head…etc. My last car was a 5.0 stang and the machining was an entirely different animal. Also any words of wisdom would be my appreciated, I think my power goal is reasonable for the cash I have. As always thanks in advance.

 

[bountykilla0118]

$5000 is more that enough 400rwhp is easily done on stock internals ..... Personally i would go lex AFM, 550 injectors, and SAFC. However the maft-pro is good setup. It took me 30mins to install my SAFC and Lex AFM setup and its very user friendly. I believe the maft-pro has a pre-programmed setup that will allow you to get up and running though. If I ever get closer to the 500rwhp mark I will more than likely go maft-pro or the stinger stand alone ....

1)550's injectors you can use the 440's for 400rwhp I am going to be pushing the limit on my 440’s pretty soon
2) Walbro 255 pump
3) Ajustable fuel pressure regulator (full kit)
4) Clutch
5) Upgrade ct26 or a true T4

400+ rwhp with a decent tune and thats on a stock block!

 

[89whitepkg]

how much did you lex afm swap cost. Also you say stock internals would be fine?

 

[jdub]

Bottom end:
- Balance the crank and have the journals micro polished...re-sized if necessary
- Have the main bearing caps line honed back to spec if necessary
- Have the rods re-sized at minimum for standard/under size bearings. New piston pin bushings. Depending on the $$$, shot preened and balance with the pistons.
- If you use ARP hardware for the main and rod caps, use the ARP torque spec...you have to have the ARP's installed when rods are re-sized and the mains are line honed.
- Use TRSM spec for ALL bearing clearances!
- If you bore the block, make sure the main caps are installed and the timing belt tensioning pulley is installed, both torqued to spec. And, use a torque plate
- Make sure the rings are gapped properly
- All new seals...I would also get a new oil pump

Head:
- New valve stem seals...replace guides as required
- 3 or 5 angle valve job
- Check all springs for compression spec...the comp cam spring are an excellent, inexpensive upgrade
- I would replace all the exhaust studs...they like to strip on the 7M. I had all the stud holes helicoiled
- Check the valve clearances (lash) before the motor is installed...much easier to do if you have to re-shim
- Make sure the cam shaft caps are torqued to spec...there is a pattern in the TRSM for this one too

MHG:
- BOTH the block and head have to be decked to the RA spec for an HKS MHG...that is 30RA or less. Don't let the machinist tell you any different
- The front timing plate on the 7M will have to be on the block when it's decked
- DO NOT use a spray sealer on a new MHG!
- Torque ARP hardware to their spec...multiple passes using the TRSM pattern. Do not over torque! ARP studs are better

That's all I can think of off the top of my head

 

[89whitepkg]

So, what is the limit on stock internals?

 

[jdub]

You can get in the 400 HP+ range easy...you start pushing your margin for error after that. There's guys that have gone higher though

 

[turbodriz]

Stock internals will be fine. Please make sure that your machinest follows what jdub especially as far as specs. Machining a domestic motor is alot different then an important. These motors must be within there spec or you'll be doing it again.

 

[89whitepkg]

You can get in the 400 HP+ range easy...you start pushing your margin for error after that. There's guys that have gone higher though

I guess I'd just be wasting my money on forged stuff then. I'd be thrilled with 400. Now should I buy a rebuild kit our use the pistons and rods I have now? They look okay.

 

[turbodriz]

Have them checked by your machinest for cracks etc.

 

[jdub]

And have your bore checked for proper piston to wall clearances and that the cylinders are still round...you might be able to get away with a hone and new rings. If out of spec, the Probe pistons are a good stock replacement and not as expensive as other forged pistons out there. Suprarich (PM him) has some in stock iirc.

Your rods should be fine...just have them preped per above.

Have the block magafluxed for cracks too...also have the head tested for hardness in case it was annealed from an over heat. A soft head is not good! FYI - stock head thickness is 116mm...measuring that will tell you if the head has been decked in the past.

To determine the thickness of a MHG, you add what was removed from the head AND block decks during the re-surface and add to 1.37mm (stock compressed HG thickness). There is .039" in 1mm.

 

[The1]

Bottom end:
- Balance the crank and have the journals micro polished...resized if necessary
- Have the main bearing caps line honed back to spec if necessary
- Have the rods re-sized at minimum for standard/under size bearings. Depending on the $$$, shot preened and balance with the pistons.

I've always read that but didn't understand the logic behind these steps. And does the resizing/shot peened/balance have to be done with forged rods?

 

[jdub]

When a crank is rebalanced and the journals re-sized (due to damage usually), it changes the diameter. This requires the rods to be re-sized to go to the next undersize bearing to get the proper bearing clearances. Rod re-sizing consists of taking material off the cap where it mates to the rod shaft, then a new circle is cut for the clearance desired. Same thing applies to the main journals on the crank, the difference is a line hone since the main bearing saddles are part of the block.

New forged rods *should* require little prep. However, to get identical bearing clearances for each rod, they *may* require a slight re-size to attain that or a specific clearance for your build. It depends on the quality of the rods and I would ALWAYS have it checked.

 

[The1]

<<<will go talk to Jay's people about this...lol.

Appreciate the info Jdub..

 

[89whitepkg]

okay, since I have this thread up and running I guess I ask something I've been trying to figure out.
1. If you run a maft-pro what else do you need besides a fuel pump and 550's.
2. If you run lexus afm and 550's what else do you need (wideband o2 and safc, fuel pump)
I'm trying to decide, I want a easly to tune system, I've never had any expierence with anything like this before.

 

[jdub]

Personally, if I were to go the piggyback route it would be a MAFT-Pro...it also allows you to switch to speed density, eliminating the AFM. You still need a WB O2. Fuel mods to make your HP goals: Walbro pump, 550's, and AFPR.

 

[sneakypete]

okay, since I have this thread up and running I guess I ask something I've been trying to figure out.
1. If you run a maft-pro what else do you need besides a fuel pump and 550's.
2. If you run lexus afm and 550's what else do you need (wideband o2 and safc, fuel pump)
I'm trying to decide, I want a easly to tune system, I've never had any experience with anything like this before.

you could get a maftpro kit which includes the unit, wiring for speed density (eliminates afm), boost control, and wideband tracking. I got mine for a little over $700. you could run the stock 440s for a while until your ready to make more power. but i would get a fuel pump ($115) and adjustable fuel pressure regulator ($260 with install kit) to help fine tune the car.

if you end up going the lexus afm (about $100) and rc 550cc injector ($589 with clips) route, you will also need the fuel pump (about $115) and adjustable fuel pressure regulator ($260 with install kit).

In the end, you will be spending around $1100 for either route. i think the the maftpro route is a lot better investment. you get a lot more for your money. also with a stock turbo and motor, you probably wont be pushing more than 400hp... so 440cc injectors will be fine.

-pete

 

[89whitepkg]

you could get a maftpro kit which includes the unit, wiring for speed density (eliminates afm), boost control, and wideband tracking. I got mine for a little over $700. you could run the stock 440s for a while until your ready to make more power. but i would get a fuel pump ($115) and adjustable fuel pressure regulator ($260 with install kit) to help fine tune the car.

if you end up going the lexus afm (about $100) and rc 550cc injector ($589 with clips) route, you will also need the fuel pump (about $115) and adjustable fuel pressure regulator ($260 with install kit).

In the end, you will be spending around $1100 for either route. i think the the maftpro route is a lot better investment. you get a lot more for your money. also with a stock turbo and motor, you probably wont be pushing more than 400hp... so 440cc injectors will be fine.

-pete

so you don't need to run a wideband w/ the maft-pro?

 

[brad92t]

Nice, another Lexington member! I have a 92 white package that I am pretending to build!

There are like 10 people from Lexington metro area on here now, this is getting good. Good luck with your build.. I would love to see it.

Oh yea I meant to ask where are you getting your machine work done? I have been asking around a LOT and I can't find any highly recommended shops in Lexington. Only one I am getting any quality recommendations on is a guy in Somerset that builds motors for cars at Kentucky Speedway... still waiting on a full report though.

 

[sneakypete]

so you don't need to run a wideband w/ the maft-pro?

the kit i am refering to includes the maftpro, wideband sensor, wideband controller, boost solenoid, map sensor, air intake sensor, wiring etc. everything you need to run maftro. if you dont want the wideband, its optional. but i recommend it.

 

[jdub]

+1 for a wideband O2

And the MAFT-Pro!