1 - If a knock sensor is dead/not connected, will this cause the car not to start?
2 - Gettin fuel and spark, car wont start, what should I be looking for?
2 - Gettin fuel and spark, car wont start, what should I be looking for?
Few Questions
- Thread starter Bigdough666
- Start date
1. It will start. It will have noticeably less power since the ECU will pull timing but it will start.
2. Compression and timing.
2. Compression and timing.
First and formost, what lead to the problem? Did the "no start" appear from no where like it started fine yesterday then today it wouldn't start or did you do something to the car and then it wouldn't start after you finished doing what ever?
If you were doing some work or something to the car, then what were you doing?
This info is important especially if you were doing something and the no start accured afterwards to be able to help diagnose the problem....
If you were doing some work or something to the car, then what were you doing?
This info is important especially if you were doing something and the no start accured afterwards to be able to help diagnose the problem....
Workin on 2 cars.
1- changed the timing belt -now wont start. Sounds like it wants to but doesnt. Noticed the knock sensor wire disconnected.
2 - Car was driving, just shut off and wouldnt start. No gas at the rail, figured fuel pump. Replaced it, gettin gas now, but still doesnt start.
1- changed the timing belt -now wont start. Sounds like it wants to but doesnt. Noticed the knock sensor wire disconnected.
2 - Car was driving, just shut off and wouldnt start. No gas at the rail, figured fuel pump. Replaced it, gettin gas now, but still doesnt start.
Bigdough666;1211360 said:
Probably got the cams out of wack.. Did you pull the dist. or CPS (depending if its turbo or NA), If so, might it installed off or the wiring plug could be not connecting properly (common on the CPS).... Knock sensor wont have any contibuting factor to a "no start" condition.....
Bigdough666;1211360 said:
Have you checked for spark? If not, then do so... Make sure that you didn't lose a power connection somewhere or like the EFI main relay hasn't gon bad... You are sure that your getting fuel now correct?
I just noticed back and understand now about you "1" and "2" in the first post and you did say that you were getting spark in "2" situation....
Your saying that with the "2" the car was running fine then just died all of a sudden and hasn't stated since then? What conditions were the car in when it died, like just idling, low speed or high speed cruise, light acceleration, heavy acceleration, high RPM, what?
Your saying that with the "2" the car was running fine then just died all of a sudden and hasn't stated since then? What conditions were the car in when it died, like just idling, low speed or high speed cruise, light acceleration, heavy acceleration, high RPM, what?
Bigdough666;1211360 said:
check all your fuses and such. you get cel when key on eng off. does it even suputter or try?
cjsupra90 - was driving normally, just died, wouldnt start. No fuel at the rail so we figured fuel pump. Swapped it out, now gettin fuel at the rail, and nothing.
dumbo - all fuses look good. Car just cranks over, not even trying to start.
Thanks for all your help guys, I appreciate it.
dumbo - all fuses look good. Car just cranks over, not even trying to start.
Thanks for all your help guys, I appreciate it.
Have you actually checked the pressure and flow at the fuel rail? If not, then do that... If you dont have a way to check pressure and flow, then one way that you can at least get a half way decent idea is to jake the car up, unhook the return line where it comes out from under the intake and put a longer section of hose on it. Enough hose that will allow you to have it come out from under the car and go into a bucket or something to catch the fuel comming out of the return... Jump the +B and FP terminals in the Diag box together, this will turn on the fuel pump without having to crank the car.. You should get a nice light and steady flow of fuel comming from the return after a second or two... If the flow is constantly inturupted (liking its spitting) then I would either suspect a problem with the pump or a clog somewhere in the fuel delivery before the rail possibly the filter or something... If the flow out of the return is or seem very high and excessive, then I would suspect a bad pressure regulator.. If you do get excessive flow, then its still a good idea to check pressure with a guage before instantly assuming that its a regulator problem unless you have another regulator handy then you could just quickly swap them out...
Try all that and if everything seems fine there, then we can move on else where...
Try all that and if everything seems fine there, then we can move on else where...
can you smell fuel coming from the tail pipe after cranking for 15 seconds or so?
not trying to talk you down cjsupra- but thats an easy way to see if the injectors are firing.
not trying to talk you down cjsupra- but thats an easy way to see if the injectors are firing.
^^^ It will indicate the injectors are firing, but not necessarily all of them 
I have a novel idea...How about checking ECU codes on both cars!
I have a novel idea...How about checking ECU codes on both cars!
^^^ I agree with the code idea under most most running condition problems, but disagree here due to the fact that about the only code that could show up that would cause a "no Start" condition is a code 12 which is no NE or G signal to ECU while cranking..... and being that he said he is getting spark, then the ecu is getting then NE and most likely the G signal... Now if the G signal is gone, then it would possibly cause a "No Start" but still will probably would back fire and possibly spudder for a second....
Now pulling codes on the car that had timing belt work job would possibly show something if the Distibutor / CPS was pulled because off the notorius plug issue with the CPS and Early distibutors but I dont see why they would have pulled it to do a TB job...
Yeah, the codes could still be pulled but I highly doubt that its going to come up with anything, at least from "no start" stand point with one exception and thats a code 12 on the car that had the TB job done..
Now pulling codes on the car that had timing belt work job would possibly show something if the Distibutor / CPS was pulled because off the notorius plug issue with the CPS and Early distibutors but I dont see why they would have pulled it to do a TB job...
Yeah, the codes could still be pulled but I highly doubt that its going to come up with anything, at least from "no start" stand point with one exception and thats a code 12 on the car that had the TB job done..
Hate to disagree, but what about a code 11 or 13 (kinda like a 12)? How about code 14? It can put the ECU in fail-safe and stop fuel injection
Don't assume he's getting spark...he never answered when you asked again. And, he never told you how he "thinks" it's getting spark.
Besides...is it really that difficult to pull codes? Especially since it could point straight at the problem instead of guessing?
Don't assume he's getting spark...he never answered when you asked again. And, he never told you how he "thinks" it's getting spark.
Besides...is it really that difficult to pull codes? Especially since it could point straight at the problem instead of guessing?
^^^^ no to non of them.
Code 11 = Loss of power to ECU.... He wouldn't get spark either if this were the case...
Code 13 = No NE or G signal above 1000 rpm.... Not going to cause a no start either as cranking speed is no where's near 1000 rpm....
Code 14 = No IGF... Yes it shuts down fuel, but it shuts down spark also and again, he is getting spark....
Code 11 = Loss of power to ECU.... He wouldn't get spark either if this were the case...
Code 13 = No NE or G signal above 1000 rpm.... Not going to cause a no start either as cranking speed is no where's near 1000 rpm....
Code 14 = No IGF... Yes it shuts down fuel, but it shuts down spark also and again, he is getting spark....
Oh and to add to the code 14, IIRC, the ECU has to see several engine cycles with no IGF before it shuts everything down..... So it would atleast fire over and run for a second or two before it shuts down...
I do agree with you about whether or not it is truly getting spark....
My assumption is that it is getting spark based on what he said. Yes assuming things can cause incorrect info but it also because if bad input... How he is checking things could be a problem... Im giving him the benifit of the doubt and that he has somewhat of a know-how to check things correctly....
My assumption is that it is getting spark based on what he said. Yes assuming things can cause incorrect info but it also because if bad input... How he is checking things could be a problem... Im giving him the benifit of the doubt and that he has somewhat of a know-how to check things correctly....
You're making a lot of assumptions Chris...and, you know what they say about that
#1 You keep assuming he's getting spark (I'm not making that assumption)
#2 You are assuming the ECU sees a NE or G signal when it's started...if it doesn't, the car will not start. Both FI and ignition depend on these signals
#3 Code 11 masks everything else (usually caused by a bad ground)
Of course what do I know...it's only 164 pages on just the TCCS
I guess a code 13 won't cause the motor to shut down?
#1 You keep assuming he's getting spark (I'm not making that assumption)
#2 You are assuming the ECU sees a NE or G signal when it's started...if it doesn't, the car will not start. Both FI and ignition depend on these signals
#3 Code 11 masks everything else (usually caused by a bad ground)
Of course what do I know...it's only 164 pages on just the TCCS
Bigdough666;1211360 said:
I guess a code 13 won't cause the motor to shut down?
I know that the assumption of spark is the real problem.... But the code 11 again if he is getting spark will not be there.....
I say we wait till he replies and answers this:
How are you making sure that you are getting spark????
As Jdub has pointed out, this is kinda vital info as to whether or not you are truly getting spark..... Go ahead and do a code scan and post up the results...
I say we wait till he replies and answers this:
How are you making sure that you are getting spark????
As Jdub has pointed out, this is kinda vital info as to whether or not you are truly getting spark..... Go ahead and do a code scan and post up the results...
good call on the codes, doh.
from what he said i'd say he is missing one of the two, or both. i think it would atleast try to go or sputter if he was getting both. everything plugged in?
from what he said i'd say he is missing one of the two, or both. i think it would atleast try to go or sputter if he was getting both. everything plugged in?
Just so you know, during engine start the STA signal tells the ECU to use memory values for timing (backup IC) and injector duration (based on coolant temp). Ne is the other relevant signal during start.
IGf is an ignition confirmation signal to the ECU (the coil fired)...it's possibe to get spark, but not a return signal (different wire). Injection is shut down, but you will get spark.
On car #1, it is very likely the distributor was installed wrong. Car #2, it could be couple things, but codes will help.
IGf is an ignition confirmation signal to the ECU (the coil fired)...it's possibe to get spark, but not a return signal (different wire). Injection is shut down, but you will get spark.
On car #1, it is very likely the distributor was installed wrong. Car #2, it could be couple things, but codes will help.