Exhaust System

Island_Yota

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Aug 5, 2008
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CRE;1119955 said:
Nothing to do with "back pressure"... that's just nonsense. Try heat. ;)


Poodles;1120001 said:
Velocity and scavenging... Backpressure is a myth.


CRE;1120005 said:
But it never gets old hearing about it... does it? ;)



UGH.

Velocity? So.. if the cat is slowing down the velocity of the exhaust gases isn't that called back pressure? To me if there's a restriction in the exhaust system(the cat) its going to make it harder for the exhaust to flow, I know they are designed to be free flowing but a wide open 3" pipe vs. mesh/washcoat/metals etc, you tell me what flows better.

I know in the Supra community it never gets old hearing about it. What makes back pressure a myth? The fact that there's other terms to describe it?
 

Poodles

I play with fire
Jul 22, 2006
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No, it's not "backpressure" that gets you low end torque.

It's the velocity of the exhaust gas and the scavenging effect it has to remove the exhaust from the cylinder and also pull in fresh air during overlap.

The size of the pipe that allows such velocity can then become a restriction at higher revs choking off power.

Backpressure is not a proper term and if anything it's the opposite, it's suction.

Now running with a cat, I'm thinking it's more placedo effect...
 

suprarx7nut

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Nov 10, 2006
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Poodles;1120249 said:
No, it's not "backpressure" that gets you low end torque.

It's the velocity of the exhaust gas and the scavenging effect it has to remove the exhaust from the cylinder and also pull in fresh air during overlap.

The size of the pipe that allows such velocity can then become a restriction at higher revs choking off power.

Backpressure is not a proper term and if anything it's the opposite, it's suction.

I think that may be the most concise, helpful piece of writing concerning the "backpressure" topic I've seen around here.

Well done Poodles. :golf clap:
 

CRE

7M-GE + MAFT Pro + T = :D
Oct 24, 2005
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Here's a little more for you. The larger the pipe diameter, the lower the velocity. The lower the velocity the colder the end gas when it exits the system. The colder the end gas the more likely you are to create back pressure. Back pressure is BAD. Cat's also raise the temp of your exhaust gases, hence a reduction in end gas density. Cats also reduce turbulence in exhaust flow... smother flow provides better egress and velocity. Get it? ;)

We done yet? This has been beat to death on here, look it up.
 

Island_Yota

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Thanks,

Yes totally understood, Any other Supra forum ive asked on I just get freaked out on and never get an answer. Ive searched before and never really came up with an answer, lots of contradicting information.

So basically for the perfect exhaust on my car id want a proper length manifold, proper diameter pipe and in a perfect world a high flow cat, resonator and muffler would have to flow correctly for the engine and be in the right places as well.
 

CRE

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Oct 24, 2005
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The cat could be omitted if the length of the exhaust piping were properly tuned for the desired load range and emissions wasn't a factor. Not really an option on a street car. The cost of tuning an exhaust alone is extremely high. There's no system that's perfect for all load ranges either. You almost always have to make sacrifices.

In a system with noise control you generally want to stick with muffling devices that use frequency cancellation technology, not something packed with baffles or perforated tubing and fiberglass. The exhaust oscillates by nature, there are devices which generally serve to fill in the gaps in air flow using harmonics. This grants a much more turbulent free exhaust flow, something which even simple perforated tubing doesn't do.

And before anyone asks, no, running an open header is NOT the best solution, you lose the potential gains you would otherwise see from a system properly designed to take advantage of scavenging.

All of this is true for turbocharged systems as well, the thing to remember there is that when they're boosting they displace MUCH more air than a N/A. The overly generalized saying that "you can't go big enough" with regard to a turbo equipped car's exhaust is [strike]simple ignorance[/strike] not always the case. It depends entirely on the power goals, the amount of air displaced, the desired RPM range for peak efficiency and so on. EDIT: It may be simple overkill or it may be enough effect your vehicle's efficiency when you're not boosting... I know, something few people really care about.


EDIT: Oh, and oscillations in the exhaust flow are not a bad thing across the board. There are ways of tuning an exhaust to make use of the sudden increase in suction.
 
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Nick M

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Cause this has never been covered before. *golf clap* for poodles patients with answering the same questions over and over.

Back to the subject, Toyota calls that pipe the head pipe, front exhaust pipe, and something else I can't think of off the top of my head. I think front exhaust pipe is in the repair manual.
 

Poodles

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Jul 22, 2006
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Actually, on a turbo car anything after the turbo doesn't really matter, the bigger the better.

Anything before the turbo will make the difference.

Scavenging can also be helped by header and collector design (grouping ports together to increase velocity), and this also carries over to turbo header design, BUT in a different way.

Some of the interesting tuned headers for turbo cars use unequal length pipes tuned that each port opening will hit the turbo right after another decreasing spool time, this is opposite of the ideas used in N/A headers.
 

CRE

7M-GE + MAFT Pro + T = :D
Oct 24, 2005
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Wrong. It takes energy to move ANYTHING. Dunno where you think it's magically coming from. The amount of loss relative to the loss incurred in a N/A engine is extremely less percentage wise, but any way about it there IS ALWAYS LOSS. The turbo itself causes losses in exhaust efficiencies.
 

CRE

7M-GE + MAFT Pro + T = :D
Oct 24, 2005
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Looking back over my initial post, it was poorly worded with regard to turbo charged systems. I maintain that there is a point where a turbo charged car's exhaust is inhibited by the turbo (see not boosting) and too large of an exhaust route. There is a point where the turbo has to catch up and overcome the loss of momentum and any time the system is not seeing positive pressure efficiency is reduced.

Is that accurate?
 
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Poodles

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Jul 22, 2006
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Better, but I doubt it would be a major issue on a car of our length :D Not to mention how large you'd have to make the pipe and it wouldn't fit under the car.

That article is a bit old, as it doesn't cover tuned unequal length headers as are being used now as upgrades on turbo cars.
 
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88mkiiisupra

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i have a 88 n/a and i want to put a tanabe hyper medallion on my car. does anyone know what i will have to do so that it will fit my car or will it be a direct bolt up?
 
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88mkiiisupra

Guest
suprarx7nut;1126264 said:
Fittings are the same for N/A and turbo after the DP. ;)

so i wont have to buy a new cat or anything? or does it take out one of the cats?
 

Moy

It's broken...
Aug 6, 2008
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No, you won't have to buy a new cat. It also will not delete one of the cats. If you want that, get a flanged test pipe. The cat-back will bolt up to the cat
 

Island_Yota

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Moy;1155999 said:
No, you won't have to buy a new cat. It also will not delete one of the cats. If you want that, get a flanged test pipe. The cat-back will bolt up to the cat

I had a 3" test pipe on my N/A, extremely loud but im running the pace setter exhaust.



If you do get the tanabe exhaust post a video or sound clip, im considering one but I cant find a sound clip anywhere.