EGR Troubleshooting

Oct 11, 2005
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Thousand Oaks, CA
Had a driveability issue that would cause the car to misfire at light loads. For example, revving to 1800-200 rpm would result in a bad misfire. Cruising at light throttle would result in a jerky feel although it was hard to actually hear the misfire, and throttle response off idle was poor.

On the 7M, often these types of drivability issues are due to a small vac leak, and I searched high and low for one. My accordion tube did have a small tear but replacing it did not fix the problem. I also checked the ignition carefully, but since the car had no misfire under boost I didn't really think it was ignition related.

My attention eventually focused on the EGR system. It sits there forgotten at the back and I had never looked at it in 25 years. I had read here of someone that had the rubber pipe between the EGR vac modulator and EGR valve fail, and so I wanted to check that out as well as anything else on the EGR system that could be tested. The location of the EGR makes it very hard to work on, and so its easy to forget about it.

Using some very large needle nose pliers I was able to disconnect the spring clamps and remove the EGR vac modulator from the EGR valve. The pipe itself was in good condition, it appears to be made of silicone with a cloth like heat should around it, but when I tested the vac modulator it failed every test.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EC&P=18

Apparently the diaphragm inside it had ruptured and exhaust was able to blow right through the tube and out the vac modulator air intake. Everything was black and grimy. The Q port also failed the test as it was permanently blocked.

The EGR valve diaphragm itself can be easily tested by hooking up a vac line and pulling vacuum on it. You should feel and hear the valve opening under very little vacuum (you can do it easily using your mouth) and it should not leak or hiss. There is a better test to verify it actually works described here:

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EC&P=17

Now the bad news, the EGR valve, vac modulator, and the mesh covered hose are all discontinued. Also, the vac modulator is a 3 port design and most Toyota's use a 4 port design (even the 7MGE uses a 4 port identified by P Q R ports on the cap) . The only three port I could find was for the 2JZ-GTE. I have one on order and will test it when it arrives. Given it is for a 3L L6 it may work on the 7MGTE. There is an aftermarket vac mod (STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # VS96) listed on Rockauto as a "EGR Vacuum Solenoid". It is more expensive than the genuine Toyota part and it may not be available if you try to order it. When I tried to order it the part disappeared off the catalog, but I see it is there now.

I ended up buying a used one. It passed the functional tests and after installing it all my drivability problems have gone.

Its definitely worth checking from time to time. You can do a quick test just by removing the P and Q vac pipes and running the vac tests. Only takes a few seconds. I suspect mine ruptured because the car has been running higher than stock boost for years now.
 

CyFi6

Aliens.
Oct 11, 2007
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Thanks for the info, I've had a really strange misfire at low loads only during the first 5-10 minutes after cold start for as long as I can remember, and I've been meaning to check the EGR. I know it isn't the vacuum modulator because that was replaced with a brand new one a couple years ago (they were available from the dealer at that time), but it could be some other EGR related issue.
 

CyFi6

Aliens.
Oct 11, 2007
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Awesome 3p! I started my car dead cold and held the EGR pipe at the rear of the manifold while revving the engine up to 2200 - right where my misfire always occurs, and sure enough the pipe got hot instantly. Checked the VSV and found the coil inside it has an open circuit- its completely dead. For now I have bypassed my EGR and plugged the vacuum line from the throttle body and WOW, what a difference in cold start drivability. I have been chasing this issue for over 4 years trying to find a possible problem with the ignition and fuel system, the EGR is just so easy to forget about. Will be installing a new VSV and driving happy very soon.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Sep 9, 2005
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ghosts of internet warriors past;1137255 said:
I know full-well how the VPC operates and how and what it feeds the TCCS, so lets drop that. My can runs VERY well, I see exceptional mileage, and the ecu has to do minimal correction to maintain closed-loop operation. I run with an innovate wideband and datalog rpm, AFM signal, map, and throttle position at all times.

I don't have any figures on egr flow (do any of you?), but imagining it is cranking out 33% of the air flow into the cylinders when enabled, my car would exceed the TCCS correction and run like a friggin' dog. I would be forced to pull 33% fuel to match the higher MAP readings that the EGR caused, at which case it would run 33% lean when at higher load without EGR (which I don't ever want).

It has been said time and time again that the TCCS is fuel-map tuned for EGR operation. ...I highly doubt that. I bet $$$ the ECU relies solely on the AFM, RPM, and IAT (and ofcourse 02 in closed-loop) to judge fuel load and the EGR being operational or not makes zero difference on fuel adjustment.

Simply said, in my experience I have found the VPC (and imagine any other map-based piggyback) to react very oddly to EGR operation, AFR swings, hesitation, and general TCCS confusion... Never say "Never", because there are times when removal is the lesser evil.

-Do any of you have figures on the ammount of timing advance you gain at different driving conditions when running EGR vs not?

-How about flame-front speed difference between 100% air/fuel vs 70% air/fuel to 30% egr? I don't know those calculations and would be interested in the results if one of you did.

--BillyM
I was actually looking for a different EGR flame war. But now that the ECU is....decoded we can look back and giggle.