Car won't start

[Revolver]

Ok, so driving yesterday the car suddenly shuts off. I coast into a parking lot, and it will not start back up. I found my oil was low, and that there was plenty of oil in the spark plug galley, but from what I understand the oil on the plugs wouldn't stop them from firing? I've of course refilled the oil, and gotten what I could out of the galley. I'm getting a code 12, ecu/cps/starter? What do ya'll think the most likely culprit is?


Here is a video, so you'll know what it's doing:

 

[Nick M]

Your cam position sensor is not putting out a signal. Check the wiring coming off it. Many people seem to have an issue these days. The wires can get old and brittle with the engine heat.

It isn't likely that the cam position sensor itself is bad, but it could be.

 

[Revolver]

I've had a problem with the connection to the CPS becoming loose before (the clips that hold it together are broken). So that was one of the first things I checked, and it seemed to be connected. I'll double check it, and try to look at the wiring on it too though.

 

[Nick M]

12 means the ECU is not getting that signal from the CPS. It is the wiring, or the CPS itself. Last choice is the ECU.

 

[Revolver]

Is there an easy way to test the CPS? I don't have a voltmeter or anything like that :\ I've double and triple checked the wiring. The connector is by no means in 'good' condition, but I see now reason why it wouldn't work.

 

[Revolver]

^ Any other thoughts or posibilities?

 

[Nick M]

Well, there are checks with the DVOM in the repair manual. You said you don't have the DVOM. That means you probably don't have DSO (scope) either. That is a better way to check it.

You need to see if there is signal ouput from it. Then check to see if the ECU is recieving it. Which it probably isn't based on the code.

 

[Revolver]

Are either of those things that I may be able to loan from Autozone?

 

[Nick M]

The only thing I go in autzone for is air freshener or carnuba wax.

 

[Revolver]

Well I got a multimeter, but I'm sure I"m not working it properly, as I'm not getting anywhere near the right numbers from the CPS. Of course that could mean the CPS is bad, but I"m getting ".35" where the TSRM says "140-180"... Took the cover off the CPS, everything looks ok, still havn't found any major problems with the wiring. Going to go back and see if I can figure out what I was going wrong earlier...

 

[isnms]

Have you still been unable to start it?
Try holding the key in the start position for several second.

CPS wiring is the first place to look for code 12. CPS wiring at the ECU also, especially if you've done any alteration to the wiring harness. Code 12 is also associated with the starting circuit. If you have the ignition in the start position for 2 seconds and it does not start then code 12 is set. You may be hunting a starting circuit problem. Read this:


http://www.mkiiitech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=868

The STA (start) signal comes from the same wire that's connected to the starter. It's one way the ECU knows the engine is being cranked. It's used to increase fuel injection during cranking (asynchronous injection ie; all injectors fire together) but it 's also used to generate a code 12. The ECU also knows the engine is being cranked by seeing the NE signal but should it not be received the ECU will use the STA signal to generate this code.

 

[Revolver]

No, still havn't been able to start it. I've held it to 'start' for several seconds. Thanks for the link, going back to look at it some more now.

 

[Nick M]

I wouldn't worry about the STA signal too much, since it stalled while driving. The STA signal is to retard timing during cranking.

 

[isnms]

I have this problem intermittently and last night it would not start again. I held the key in start for 20 or more seconds and it would not start. I could turn it to start quickly several times and hear the relay and solenoid click. All accessories work. This is an intermittent occurrence.

After looking over the wiring diagram again, since posting on this tread, I had a thought. The power to the seat comes through the same fl as the starter signal. Maybe coincidence or not, but I bumped the seat forward then back and the very next turn of the key it fired up.

I don't know when I'll get to test this again, because it's so intermittent. Maybe I have a weak 40A fl.

Just throwing out my experience with this issue.

 

[jetjock]

Sounds like a starter problem to me. Likely worn brushes, solenoid contact, or bad power/grounding. Weak FL? Reminds me of a guy I used to work with years ago. He was a believer in weak fuses. I never did get him to see the problem with that

 

[isnms]

Maybe corroded connections at the fl?

When I first experienced this problem a couple years ago, it appeared to be the starter. I got a replacement one and took it to AutoZone before installing and it test good. I still have this problem intermittently and when I was replacing the engine, a few months back, I took the starter again to be tested. I had them run the test several times and it passed. I still have the problem intermittently.

edit: Sorry Revolver. I won't hijack your thread. My issue appears to be different and not helping you.

 

[jetjock]

I was assuming the connection was good. If not it'll only get worse with time as it burns up. I once had this same problem with another car where the owner had to hold the key to start for several seconds before any cranking occured. It turned out to be bad starter solenoid. Bad brushes will do it too.

About all you can do short of changing out the starter is temporarily wire some sort of monitor to the signal right at the starter and see if you get power there when this happens. Use something like a headlight to load the circuit down. If you get no power move the headlamp backwards along the circuit until you find the problem. It'll take a few episodes to track it down. The thing is you have to decide whether the problem lies on the power or control side. Since you say the solenoid and relay click I'm still banking on a bad starter. It tested out ok because it's an intermittent problem. After all it works more often than not right? Myself, I would've either turn the thing apart while I had it out or simply changed it.

 

[Revolver]

Well as it turns out, the timing belt had broke. Odd, since it was just changed about 2 years ago... anyways, the CPS, etc., are fine.