Any alternative markings to do cam gear timing with???

[IwantMKIII]

I did my timing last night the best i could. The plate behind the cam gears i no longer have, i bought the car without it. When I went to do timing i simply lined them as straight upwards as i could. There are 18 notches from before my exhaust cam line to right before my intake cam mark. I know there should be markings underneath the cam covers but im trying to avoid that obviously, is there anything else i can line them up with to double check or am i pretty much screwed on this one?

 

[jdub]

Hmmm...I would not run the motor without that plate.

 

[dugums]

I usually check for TDC using a chopstick through the spark plug hole. Then you can check the intake cam to make sure you are on the right cycle.

It's probably best to get a plate though - somebody who is parting out probably has one for cheap.

 

[ForcedTorque]

Send me your address, and I'll ship you the plate!

 

[IwantMKIII]

Hmmm...I would not run the motor without that plate.

Too late, lol, runs fine...so far.....what are the big problems if i run it off a couple notches or so?

 

[IwantMKIII]

I usually check for TDC using a chopstick through the spark plug hole. Then you can check the intake cam to make sure you are on the right cycle.

It's probably best to get a plate though - somebody who is parting out probably has one for cheap.

Everything is on the correct cycle...just need to fine tune is all.

 

[dugums]

Everything is on the correct cycle...just need to fine tune is all.

Well, that's all the markings on the plate tell you. There's nothing the plate is going to show you to help you "fine tune" anything.

What are you trying to accomplish?

 

[jdub]

Too late, lol, runs fine...so far.....what are the big problems if i run it off a couple notches or so?

Are you sure you're a MA enginnering student? Think about what that plate does over the long term and what is under it and what runs across it. It's just not that hard to put one on...especially a free one.

 

[IwantMKIII]

Are you sure you're a MA enginnering student? Think about what that plate does over the long term and what is under it and what runs across it. It's just not that hard to put one on...especially a free one.

Well i am still a student keep in mind :icon_bigg

TBO i don't know because i've never had one of those plates before so i can't visually see what they do. My only guess besides "fine tuning" the cams better than just eyeing them like me would be protecting the timing belt and prevent any foreign objects from entering into the gear system possibly, ultimately leading to failure. But that only happens if you have the front cover as well:

As you can see i have neither, i bought the car originally without them. I've been driving the car since its rebuild for about 5K miles with no issues. As far as i'm aware many people run without the cam covers with no issues. Am i wrong here?

 

[IwantMKIII]

Well, that's all the markings on the plate tell you. There's nothing the plate is going to show you to help you "fine tune" anything.

What are you trying to accomplish?

Plate will tell you where the cams should be when the crank is TDC much better than me just "eyeing" it

 

[7M-fanatic]

Hmmm...I would not run the motor without that plate.

I always throw that piece of junk away.........

Just make sure you have 18 belt cogs between the cam gear timing marks, and the are symetrical when the crank is at top dead center.
If one looks to be off to one side more than another, you are 1 cog off.

 

[dugums]

Plate will tell you where the cams should be when the crank is TDC much better than me just "eyeing" it

That's not really true. Using the plate IS just "eyeing" it.

If you put something in the spark plug hole (i.e. a chopstick), it is very easy to feel TDC. The chopstick moves up as you rotate the crank and after it hits TDC, it will start to move down. You just rotate the crank until you get it precisely on TDC and make sure the cam gears are symmetrical.

If anything, this would provide a more accurate location than the timing plate. The timing plate isn't actually part of the system and is therefor less reliable than manually finding TDC. (Though not unreliable).

I have my timing plate - and you should take the offer for the free one - it's a good thing to have.

 

[jdub]

Well i am still a student keep in mind :icon_bigg

TBO i don't know because i've never had one of those plates before so i can't visually see what they do. My only guess besides "fine tuning" the cams better than just eyeing them like me would be protecting the timing belt and prevent any foreign objects from entering into the gear system possibly, ultimately leading to failure. But that only happens if you have the front cover as well:
As you can see i have neither, i bought the car originally without them. I've been driving the car since its rebuild for about 5K miles with no issues. As far as i'm aware many people run without the cam covers with no issues. Am i wrong here?

Yep...you're wrong. The cam oil seals are behind the plate...the cams are fed oil under pressure through the 1st journal aft of the gear mounts. Oil attracts dirt...not to mention the random drops of oil from the seals going forward under deceleration and hitting the timing belt/gears. Plus running without the front cover risks getting debris in the timing belt. None of the above is good.

Sure...you can run without it. The question is how long and is it smart

BTW - I set DTC exactly the same as above, except I use a stiff plastic tube...never thought of using a chopstick! LOL.

I always throw that piece of junk away.........

Doesn't surprise me...based on some of the other comments made on SM lately. Bet you run a 20W-50 in your motor too

 

[ForcedTorque]

While I'm at it, I'm gonna send you an alternator bracket too! It's not perfect, but will take that rust rock off the corner of that motor.

 

[7M-fanatic]

Yep...you're wrong. The cam oil seals are behind the plate...the cams are fed oil under pressure through the 1st journal aft of the gear mounts. Oil attracts dirt...not to mention the random drops of oil from the seals going forward under deacceleration and hitting the timing belt/gears. Plus running without the front cover risks getting debris in the timing belt. None of the above is good.

Look closely at a 7M head......
There is a drain hole between the bearing & the seal.
No pressure build up here...........

I have run for years without that big pice of ballast, in several different 7Ms.
Not one ever had a seal failure, or a seal pop out.
Nada, Zilch, Zero !

 

[jdub]

Look closely at a 7M head......
There is a drain hole between the bearing & the seal.
No pressure build up here...........

I have run for years without that big pice of ballast, in several different 7Ms.
Not one ever had a seal failure, or a seal pop out.
Nada, Zilch, Zero !

Got news for ya...that "hole" in the front cam saddle is the pressure feed for the cam flowing to the rest of the journals aft through the center of the cam :3d_frown:
7M Oil System Diagram

And there are no bearings for any of the cam journals.

STFU unless you know what you're talking about...and I could care less how long you've done this or that. In this case, all it means is that you are lucky. The weight saving for that "big piece of ballast" is a grand total of 8 oz max...if that's the reason you're removing it, well, might want to consider if your priorities are screwed up.

 

[Nomad707]

running without that plate or a cam timing cover is like walking in iraq with a bomb strapped to your chest.... its only a matter of time before it blows up..

when something small goes in those gears and throws off your timing belt and ruins your gears and maybee your engine..

ive seen it happen.

 

[7M-fanatic]

Got news for ya...that "hole" is the pressure feed for the cam flowing to the rest of the journals aft through the center of the cam :3d_frown:
7M Oil System Diagram


STFU unless you know what you're talking about...and I could care less how long you've done this or that. In this case, all it means is that you are lucky. The weight saving for that "big piece of ballast" is a grand total of 8 oz max...if that's the reason you're removing it, well, might want to consider if your priorities are screwed up.

As Warren Johnson says "OK, here is where I take a punk kid to school"

Drain Hole !
First off, if you knew anything about lip seals, there is not one on the face of the earth that will take more than 10 psi.
If that was an oil feed whole, it would blow out right away.
That is why Toyota put a DRAIN Hole between the front bearing, and the seal.
And for those of you who can't read (or follow an oil flow diagram),
here are some pictures......

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OK, now I wait for the "oh, I guess you were right" comments......

 

[7M-fanatic]

ive seen it happen.

If there is ever a seal blow-out on a 7M,
it is because you have a worn out engine,
that the crank case vents are plugged,
and the blow-by has no where to go.

Or you have a worn out engine, that your jacking the boost up on,
and the blow-by volume exceeds what can flow through the vents.

So it (crank case pressure) exceeds the limits of the seals.

 

[IwantMKIII]

While I'm at it, I'm gonna send you an alternator bracket too! It's not perfect, but will take that rust rock off the corner of that motor.

lol, awesome! THANKS! that thing is such an eye sore in my engine bay. I've since that picture cleaned it some and removed some of the rust but most still remains :3d_frown: