7m Oil Cooler Setup

[hvyman]

Yes it is. Or else its going to take forever for the oil to warm up. Stock goes off pressure so no oil even goes into the oil cooler until you reach the pop off pressure for it to go to the cooler. And then it just goes to the pan after.

With no stat your basically having a hot engine with cold oil. Not good for the oil or the motor.

 

[jdub]

How much of a pressure drop does a standard full flow filter have? Only reason I ask is because I am still confused how the trasko works with a dual filter head. I assume the full flow would drop less pressure than the trasko (may be wrong). For example if at 80 PSI, the full flow dropped 3 PSI, that means 80 PSI is at the inlet of both the full flow and the trasko, and 77 PSI is at the outlet of both the full flow and the trasko (seeing as they are in parallel). Wouldn't that drastically reduce the flow through the trasko because there is only a 3 PSI difference between the inlet and the outlet of the trasko? Sorry if that didn't make a ton of sense, just trying to understand! Thanks.

As stated, input pressure is going to be constant across both filters on a dual head - as long as input pressure to the Trasko is above it's critical pressure for the valve to operate, oil is going to flow through it at the ratio stated above. Look at the valve in the Trasko like the one on the stock filter head that supplies the stock cooler - it's a pressure bleed. The difference is the Trasko will not affect overall system pressure because of the full flow filter next to it on a dual head - output pressure is going to be maintained to the bearings, etc by the full flow filter.

Output pressure from the Trasko is irrelevant since it is being used as a bypass filter. The pressure drop across the Trasko is going to be huge when oil is flowing through the paper media exclusively - keep in mind it's essentially a small roll of TP. The two filters are not going to act the same in any way.
However, varying pressure (i.e. idle to cruise rpm) will affect the volume of oil passed through the Trasko's paper media (all though you'd be shocked at how much oil passes through a 1/8" hole). At idle, and depending on pump output pressure, the flow could very well be zero in a 7M system. At cruise in a 7M, the pump will supply at least 40 psi to the filter head, well above the critical pressure for the Trasko - in fact, the Trasko is likely to go into bypass and direct oil through the 8-10 micron screen. Even if the average volume of oil (idle to cruise) is dropped to 1 gal per hour, that means over half of a 7M's oil capacity pass through the Trasko's paper media every hour of operation. Over time, the oil will be clinically free of particulates and maintained that way.

Is it really necessary to use an thermostat? Stock system doesn't that I know of. My previous setup didn't have one installed and it still worked fine.

What Hvyman said ^^^ You just "think" your previous setup was working fine without a thermostat - of course oil is going to flow through the cooler. You were delaying the time it takes to get the oil to ops temp, hence reducing flow to the bearings due to higher viscosity (i.e. cold, thick oil) than ops temp spec. Not a good thing at all.

 

[CyFi6]

As stated, input pressure is going to be constant across both filters on a dual head - as long as input pressure to the Trasko is above it's critical pressure for the valve to operate, oil is going to flow through it at the ratio stated above (Regardless of pressure at the outlet?). Look at the valve in the Trasko like the one on the stock filter head that supplies the stock cooler - it's a pressure bleed (But the oil cooler always has 0PSIG (oil pan) on the other side of the valve). The difference is the Trasko will not affect overall system pressure because of the full flow filter next to it on a dual head - output pressure is going to be maintained to the bearings, etc by the full flow filter (True, and flow through the Trasko will be determined by the full flow filter, correct?).

Output pressure from the Trasko is irrelevant since it is being used as a bypass filter. (But isn't output pressure going to determine how much flow comes through the Trasko bypass (must have a pressure drop for flow to happen right?))

Hey Jdub thank you for the explanation. Some things that still confuse me here, hopefully you can understand where my confusion is. Now I may be missing something extremely simple here (most likely) but regardless it would be nice to know what it is I am missing. I drew a couple pics (yes I had a lot of time on my hands lol) and it would be great if you would take a look. I drew what I saw the dual filter head to be/how I think it is routed. Maybe this is where I am mistaken.

I related it to an electrical circuit, basically what I see is that the amount of restriction of the full flow filter determines how much oil will flow through the Trasko. As the full flow filter becomes more restrictive, the Trasko begins to flow more and vice versa. Assuming that a brand new full flow filter is not very restrictive (what I assume, may be wrong), the Trasko is going to have hardly any oil flow.

You can see between the two schematics, the only thing I changed was the amount of restriction of the full flow, and in tern, the amount of flow through the Trasko changes. Point being, the less restrictive the full flow filter, the less flow the Trasko sees. Am I correct in saying this? In that case, the Trasko will see very little oil flow when paired with a new clean full flow filter. Thanks for your time.



If what I am thinking is correct, that would mean that a restriction would be needed on the full flow filter inlet in order to increase the flow through the bypass filter, rather than a restriction on the inlet of the bypass filter like you had said there was built into the Trasko (this is all assuming you are running the Trasko on a dual filter head in parallel with the full flow filter).

 

[jdub]

How much of a pressure drop does a standard full flow filter have? Only reason I ask is because I am still confused how the trasko works with a dual filter head. I assume the full flow would drop less pressure than the trasko (may be wrong). For example if at 80 PSI, the full flow dropped 3 PSI, that means 80 PSI is at the inlet of both the full flow and the trasko, and 77 PSI is at the outlet of both the full flow and the trasko (seeing as they are in parallel). Wouldn't that drastically reduce the flow through the trasko because there is only a 3 PSI difference between the inlet and the outlet of the trasko? Sorry if that didn't make a ton of sense, just trying to understand! Thanks.

Hey Jdub thank you for the explanation. Some things that still confuse me here, hopefully you can understand where my confusion is. Now I may be missing something extremely simple here (most likely) but regardless it would be nice to know what it is I am missing. I drew a couple pics (yes I had a lot of time on my hands lol) and it would be great if you would take a look. I drew what I saw the dual filter head to be/how I think it is routed. Maybe this is where I am mistaken.

I related it to an electrical circuit, basically what I see is that the amount of restriction of the full flow filter determines how much oil will flow through the Trasko. As the full flow filter becomes more restrictive, the Trasko begins to flow more and vice versa. Assuming that a brand new full flow filter is not very restrictive (what I assume, may be wrong), the Trasko is going to have hardly any oil flow.

You can see between the two schematics, the only thing I changed was the amount of restriction of the full flow, and in tern, the amount of flow through the Trasko changes. Point being, the less restrictive the full flow filter, the less flow the Trasko sees. Am I correct in saying this? In that case, the Trasko will see very little oil flow when paired with a new clean full flow filter. Thanks for your time.

First, the flow of electrons and fluid dynamics are like apples & oranges - not even close to make an analogy. In electricity resistance, the result is heat - in fluid dynamics, resistance results in pressure. Please dump the comparison.
Also consider fluid behavior at a manifold - a dual filter head is exactly this with 2 outlets.

Pressure at the filter head outlet is not determined by the filter itself - it's determined by what is downstream of the filter...i.e. the bearings. There will be a slight pressure drop across the filter due to the media - if you think about it, a filter cannot have a large restriction or you would inhibit flow to the bearings - not good! That's why I used the stock cooler valve as an example to illustrate what happens when there is no restriction downstream - very low psi (not at zero, but close) at the cooler outlet as oil is flowed to the pan. A true pressure bleed. The dual filter head does not have this problem - the bearings are much more restrictive and will determine pressure at the filter outlet. There will be a difference in pressure as measured at the block and filter outlet, but it's small. Both filters on a dual head are pressurized - that pressure is determined by the restriction at the bearings. Your oil diagram is accurate, but you will not have that much psi at the Trasko outlet because of the way it works.

The Trasko controls all this via it's valve - above critical pressure oil flows through the 8-10 micron screen, making it very like a full flow filter. Keep in mind the pressure at the filter inlet is what makes the Trasko function, not pressure at the outlet - it's not the full flow filter making that pressure at the inlet, it's the downstream bearing restriction. The pressure differential inside the Trasko is maintained by an orifice, and that is what causes flow through the paper media - the pressure required for this is very small. As long as there is sufficient pressure at the inlet, the Trasko will function. Flow through the Trasko when used as a bypass filter does not have to be very much - like I said, 1 gal per hour will quickly insure total oil capacity will flow through the Trasko in a short time.

I hope you can see that it's not the full flow filter determining flow through the Trasko - it's the inlet pressure determined by the bearings. All the full flow filter does it reduce the flow (there will still be some) through the 8-10 micron screen inside the Trasko due to the spring resistance of the valve - as resistance from the spring increases as inlet pressure increases, more flow will take the path of less resistance...i.e. through the full flow filter. It's the valve inside reacting to inlet pressure that makes the Trasko work - that pressure applied across a manifold gives the oil an alternate path. Since it's pressure at the inlet pushing on a valve spring that determines flow through the Trasko, there will be a point where inlet pressure will equalize between the spring and alternate path flow through the full flow filter. No matter what, there will be flow through the Trasko as long as inlet pressure is sufficient. That's the best I can do explaining it.

 

[CyFi6]

Thanks for the long explanation, I can see now the electrical reference doesn't really work. I think the issue is that I was thinking of the Trasko as a set restriction, one that cannot change. I'm still a little confused on how the valve in the Trasko works, I will re read your post a few times, maybe something will click.

Pressure at the filter head outlet is not determined by the filter itself - it's determined by what is downstream of the filter...i.e. the bearings.

Your oil diagram is accurate, but you will not have that much psi at the Trasko outlet because of the way it works.

This is also something I have a hard time wrapping my brain around. I can understand that the engine bearings downstream are what cause the pressure to build, so how is pressure at the outlet of the full flow greater than the pressure at the outlet of the Trasko, if both outlets are connected to each other (even with the valve in the Trasko, I don't understand how pressure at 2 ports that are connected to each other can be unequal. The only way I could see them being unequal is if the size of the filter head drillings were such that they did not allow the oil to flow fast enough). Consider this - If instead of a full flow filter, there was just a strait path for oil to flow (simulating a full flow with very little restriction), would a significant amount of oil still flow through the Trasko because it still has inlet pressure above 8-10PSI?

PS - I completely understand if you don't wish to explain any further...I know I can be a nuisance. :icon_mad: And I still think my main issue is not understanding the valve in the Trasko.

Would it still work as it is in the configuration below (granted you would be feeding the engine unfiltered oil, but would significant oil still flow through the Trasko?)?

 

[stevenr816]

Cyrus, click here and then the Q&A
http://www.trasko-usa.com/

The trasko has a built in valve to bypass the pressure cause its a low volume/pressure filter

Heres what they say
The Trasko unit consists of a reusable canister with built-in 36 cooling fins. Trasko traps particles by lateral dispersion. The special filter element composed of kiln-dried paper has a fine porosity that traps fine particles from flowing oil while dispersing through its permeable layers. The special pressure relief valve-nut actuates when there is a pressure build-up or a surge. The valve then redirects or bypasses the oil to circulate through the 8-10 micron mesh (The critical pressure for setting itself into a bypass mode is between 8-16 psi at the relief valve and output pressure 85-90 psi from a typical vehicle's oil pump). Thus regulating a constant pressure differential in the range of an Input/Output of 1.00 : 0.89 (i.e if the input pressure was 80 psi the output pressure from the Trasko is 71.20 psi, this slight pressure drop is actually needed so that a small flow of oil is directed through the paper filter media). When flow is least restrictive the absolute particle rating efficiency is less than a micron. Upon relief actuation the secondary efficiency is still between 8-10 microns. An efficiency rating still higher than any stock type full-flow filters. The Trasko is a hybrid filter, conditionally set as full-flow oil system for any engine and changes itself into the bypass mode when it experiences a pressure above its critical range. Regular shunt market filters are designed full flow only and if they do have a bypass valve then their bypass is without a guard and the oil flows without any filtration. The Trasko can be used also as a bypass unit, if you prefer to install it along with a regular filter on a dual remote mount. The Trasko is a highly recommended product for diesel applications as well.. See some Spot Tests BELOW

---------- Post added at 01:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ----------

So jdub on dual filter head both filters get 100% oil or is it going to go to the path of least resistance/restriction?

 

[jdub]

Thanks for the long explanation, I can see now the electrical reference doesn't really work. I think the issue is that I was thinking of the Trasko as a set restriction, one that cannot change. I'm still a little confused on how the valve in the Trasko works, I will re read your post a few times, maybe something will click.

This is also something I have a hard time wrapping my brain around. I can understand that the engine bearings downstream are what cause the pressure to build, so how is pressure at the outlet of the full flow greater than the pressure at the outlet of the Trasko, if both outlets are connected to each other (even with the valve in the Trasko, I don't understand how pressure at 2 ports that are connected to each other can be unequal. The only way I could see them being unequal is if the size of the filter head drillings were such that they did not allow the oil to flow fast enough). Consider this - If instead of a full flow filter, there was just a strait path for oil to flow (simulating a full flow with very little restriction), would a significant amount of oil still flow through the Trasko because it still has inlet pressure above 8-10PSI?

PS - I completely understand if you don't wish to explain any further...I know I can be a nuisance. :icon_mad: And I still think my main issue is not understanding the valve in the Trasko.

Would it still work as it is in the configuration below (granted you would be feeding the engine unfiltered oil, but would significant oil still flow through the Trasko?)?

Yes, the Trasko will work as shown in your new diagram. This is exactly the configuration if you simply replace a conventional filter with a Trasko at the stock location.

I used the cooler relief valve as an example because it is exactly how the valve in the Trasko works - the difference is the Trasko spring is not as stiff, allowing the valve to function at a lower inlet psi. The stock filter head has a low resistance filter and a spring actuated valve - it works even though there is less resistance through the filter. Think about why this is and you will have the reason a Trasko works.

Refer to your 1st oil diagram: Instead of the Trasko outlet feeding to another manifold, what would pressure be at the outlet if the Trasko fed straight to the pan? The same as the stock cooler circuit, near zero psi. The same would happen with a convential filter too. That psi you see at the outlet manifold is a result of back pressure from the bearings, not from the filters. The only way pressure could stop flow through the Trasko is if it were presssurized by a pump from the outlet side or it was capped off. If there is 1 less psi difference between inlet/outlet, flow will occur.

The Trasko paper media is much more restrictive than a full flow filter, which affects volume flow - slows it way down. Don't focus on filter outlet pressure (this is why you're confused). As long as the inlet manifold is being pressurized by the pump and the oil has a place to go (the bearings), flow will occur through both filters. Focus on volume - the volume flowing through the conventional filter is many, many times the volume flowing through the Trasko. That is exactly what is suppose to happen

So jdub on dual filter head both filters get 100% oil or is it going to go to the path of least resistance/restriction?

Sigh.....
Steven - please go back and re-read all my previous posts. Pay close attention to the gal per hour flow rate through the Trasko.



Quick fluid mechanics lesson (simplified version - closed oil system):
- Piping dia, tube dia, orifice dia, etc determine max flow rates
- As max flow rate is approached, psi increases - this is "resistance to flow"
- Flow at absolute max volume causes psi to shoot through the roof...i.e. the pipe or tubing ruptures
- Conventional filters have very little resistance to volume flow
- Paper media bypass filters have a large resistance to to volume flow
- Volume flow through a conventional filter is large, volume flow through a bybass filter is small
- Both still flow if adequate pressure is supplied at the inlet and the oil has somewhere to go

 

[CyFi6]

Yes, the Trasko will work as shown in your new diagram. This is exactly the configuration if you simply replace a conventional filter with a Trasko at the stock location.

Oh boy now you got me real confused! I was attempting to make a point because I was almost certain that the configuration in this pic would not work! Hey we are narrowing down onto what I fail to understand I guess!
I fail to see how this picture is exactly the configuration if you simply replace a conventional filter with a Trasko. If this was the case, the filter would be in series with the oil flow. In my picture it is in parallel. Basically, if I tapped off the oil pressure sensor hole on the 7m, fed it to the inlet of the Trasko, then fed the outlet of the trasko to the turbo oil feed line, that would be exactly the configuration I have pictured. The vertical green line represents the main oil galley and the horizontal lines to the filter represent lines that tap off the main galley. I don't see how you can have oil flow with equal pressure on either side of the filter!:icon_frow

The part I have failed to understand from the very beginning is how the pressure drop across the Trasko can be greater than the pressure drop across the full flow, when both outlets are connected to each other.:1zhelp:

Consider the full flow drops 3 PSI at 80PSI inlet pressure for whatever given engine. I fail to see how the Trasko can have a greater pressure drop than 3 PSI. As the pressure at the outlet of the Trasko falls below 77 PSI, post-full-flow-filter-oil (being pumped by the gear pump) will fill the low pressure area to equalize pressure will it not (fluid will flow from a high pressure area to a low pressure area)? This is where I am lost.

The only way pressure could stop flow through the Trasko is if it were presssurized by a pump from the outlet side

Exactly, the oil is being pumped at a high rate through the full flow, therefore if pressure drops on the outlet of the Trasko, this oil being pumped through the full flow will fill the low pressure area which is the outlet of the Trasko, effectively reducing your pressure differential of the Trasko, which in return lowers flow through the Trasko significantly. In this case, the minor restriction that is the full flow filter is required to maintain a pressure differential of any kind for the Trasko to flow oil when connected in parallel to the main oil gallery(keep in mind I am not sure on this, I am just stating what I THINK is right which it could be very far from being). If the full flow filter were non existent, and no pressure drop occurred between the inlet of the Trasko and the outlet of the Trasko, there would be no flow through the Trasko (as in the example i gave above with the 7M ports) correct?

I have no issue understanding the Trasko when connected in parallel, dumping to the pan, or when connected in series (simply replacing the full flow). It is only when it is run in parallel alongside the full flow/main oil gallery that I get this confusion.
I feel I am making a critical mistake in my thinking somewhere but I just can't pinpoint where. If you are about to give up its OK, I will join you

 

[jdub]

Oh boy now you got me real confused! I was attempting to make a point because I was almost certain that the configuration in this pic would not work! Hey we are narrowing down onto what I fail to understand I guess!
I fail to see how this picture is exactly the configuration if you simply replace a conventional filter with a Trasko. If this was the case, the filter would be in series with the oil flow. In my picture it is in parallel. Basically, if I tapped off the oil pressure sensor hole on the 7m, fed it to the inlet of the Trasko, then fed the outlet of the trasko to the turbo oil feed line, that would be exactly the configuration I have pictured. The vertical green line represents the main oil galley and the horizontal lines to the filter represent lines that tap off the main galley. I don't see how you can have oil flow with equal pressure on either side of the filter!:icon_frow

That is my mistake looking at your diagram - I assumed the vertical green line was a typo and the Trasco was connected in a series like the stock filter head. Since you did mean it was in parallel, it is not a good example. The vertical green line is an unbroken feed on a single line in the diagram. On a dual filter head, the inlet line is the same as a "Y" feeding two filters with a "Y" at the outlets feeding oil back to one line to the bearings. There is a pressure differential between the two "Y's" because of the filters. Like I said, all you need is a 1 psi difference for oil to flow and it has no choice since the pressure is being generated at the pump side.

If you tapped off the sensor hole and connected the outlet to the turbo feed, you connected both sides of the Trasko to pump pressure with opposing flow coming at each other. Of course it's not going to work. It's not the same as flow through a manifold from the pump, across the filters, to less resistance at the bearings - flow is going one way.

The part I have failed to understand from the very beginning is how the pressure drop across the Trasko can be greater than the pressure drop across the full flow, when both outlets are connected to each other.:1zhelp:

Consider the full flow drops 3 PSI at 80PSI inlet pressure for whatever given engine. I fail to see how the Trasko can have a greater pressure drop than 3 PSI. As the pressure at the outlet of the Trasko falls below 77 PSI, post-full-flow-filter-oil (being pumped by the gear pump) will fill the low pressure area to equalize pressure will it not (fluid will flow from a high pressure area to a low pressure area)? This is where I am lost.

How about this: To get the same volume through the Trasko as the conventional filter, pressure would have to be far greater at the inlet. It's the paper media's density that slows oil flow down. Forget about pressure and any other preconceived notion - focus on flow. Oil is going to flow through the Trasko if inlet pressure is sufficient - it's that simple.

Exactly, the oil is being pumped at a high rate through the full flow, therefore if pressure drops on the outlet of the Trasko, this oil being pumped through the full flow will fill the low pressure area which is the outlet of the Trasko, effectively reducing your pressure differential of the Trasko, which in return lowers flow through the Trasko significantly. In this case, the minor restriction that is the full flow filter is required to maintain a pressure differential of any kind for the Trasko to flow oil when connected in parallel to the main oil gallery(keep in mind I am not sure on this, I am just stating what I THINK is right which it could be very far from being). If the full flow filter were non existent, and no pressure drop occurred between the inlet of the Trasko and the outlet of the Trasko, there would be no flow through the Trasko (as in the example i gave above with the 7M ports) correct?

Flow cannot reverse through the Trasko - it's one way. Pressure present at the outlet manifold just has to be 1 psi less than pressure inside the Trasko.

I have no issue understanding the Trasko when connected in parallel, dumping to the pan, or when connected in series (simply replacing the full flow). It is only when it is run in parallel alongside the full flow/main oil gallery that I get this confusion.
I feel I am making a critical mistake in my thinking somewhere but I just can't pinpoint where. If you are about to give up its OK, I will join you

Well I tried...maybe didn't do such a great job. I do know for a fact that a Trasko will work as advertised on a dual head. I've replaced the media many times and it was pretty darn black.

 

[CyFi6]

There is a pressure differential between the two "Y's" because of the filters.

This is the point I have been trying to defend, looks like we were somewhat on the same page all along. If set up with these Y's, and the full flow filter was replaced with a strait through line aka no restriction (basically what I drew), all flow would go through the half of the Y with nearly 0 restriction and almost none would go through the half with the Trasko. So in other words, the full flow filter allows the Trasko to see any significant oil flow.

I do know for a fact that a Trasko will work as advertised on a dual head. I've replaced the media many times and it was pretty darn black.

I guess I can deal with this . I would think a larger spin on filter strictly meant for fine micron filtering only (not hybrid) like the Amsoil would be a better option, but we all know how much you LOVE and support Amsoil

 

[jdub]

This is the point I have been trying to defend, looks like we were