When Are Piggy Backs Not Enough?

[TurboStreetCar]

About when is the time that piggy backs just dont cut it? excluding the maft pro due to its timing controll. When the AFM is scaled it changes the amount of advance, and from what i understand it keeps the timing advanced from such a low airflow value.

well when is the time when this becomes a big problem? i realize its always a problem, but when is it to the point where no matter how good the tune, its still unsafe? 400hp? 500hp? 600hp??

 

[drjonez]

personally, i think the cutoff should be around 500rwhp. @ that point you're well over 2X the stock power output....as well as relying on 25 yr old technology tricked into doing things it shouldn't to run your high strung engine. additionally, the more precise control of everything should net you some good gains...20-50rwhp or so. just my $5....

as far as what's safe, that's hard to say....a gun in the hands of children is never safe. remember that many people have made well over 600rwhp on piggybacks, it's all how you tune and the quality of fuel you run.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

Im really only worried about the ignition portion because the fuel side is somewhat easy to controll when you get the hang of it.

Is there any way to look at what the stock timing curve looks like, desypher what part of the map you are running in and dial base timing to compensate?

for example say stock car at WOT at 5000rpm 7 psi runs about 15 degrees advance with base timing at 10 degrees base.

And a car using a MAF scaling device running a large turbo at say 19psi runs about 20 degrees advance with base timing at 10 degrees base.

would knocking back base timing 5 degrees equal out the diffrence? or effectively correct the problem with maf scaling? i realize off boost and low load would lack performance from retarted timing, but where it really counts, under full boost at WOT would the car become safe as if it was bieng controlled by say a standalone (AEM)?

 

[drjonez]

Im really only worried about the ignition portion because the fuel side is somewhat easy to controll when you get the hang of it.

Is there any way to look at what the stock timing curve looks like, desypher what part of the map you are running in and dial base timing to compensate?

nope, not really.....well, you could have the toyo engineer that programmed it tell you....or have reg reimer tell you....or you could hook up a MAFT pro w/timing monitor and log timing over every possible engine condition.

for example say stock car at WOT at 5000rpm 7 psi runs about 15 degrees advance with base timing at 10 degrees base.

And a car using a MAF scaling device running a large turbo at say 19psi runs about 20 degrees advance with base timing at 10 degrees base.

would knocking back base timing 5 degrees equal out the diffrence? or effectively correct the problem with maf scaling? i realize off boost and low load would lack performance from retarted timing, but where it really counts, under full boost at WOT would the car become safe as if it was bieng controlled by say a standalone (AEM)?

yeah, backing down base timing would help, but realize your off-boost performance would be adversely affected (sounds like you know that).