Overheating Nightmare !!

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supranut

Guest
Thanks bluemax and T701jz for the suggestions. The car is a manual NA and he said that the water pump was working properly. I told him about this site so I believe he will be checking this thread while my daughter and I travel to the French River to hook into a couple of sea monsters and just forget about the city and all my supra frustrations. Thanks everyone for all your replies and I hope they keep coming, and with any luck next week the problems will be solved. Look forward to reading this thread next week.......TT....Fish On!!
 
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Eddie the Eagle

Guest
fill up rad and start engine with rad cap off if water shoots up and out the rad, you have a preasurized cooling system (air locks or BHG)



ok you say your mechanic has done the BHG, even if he did do it to toyotas 57ft/lbs and not the revised 72-75 it should still last a good 80thousand miles.
sounds like air locks to me,
The 7M engine has a very basic cooling system however it does create air locks if the cooling system is filled to quickly. also another cause can be a leaky heater matrix.

to fill up a 7M's cooling system correctly, jack the front ot the car up as high as you can safley go (hand brake on and blocks of wood behind rear wheels)
and slowly fill the cooling system, yours being a manual NA it should take 8.1ltrs from bone dry,
when you have filled it up, start the engine with the rad cap off and let any remaining air bubles rise to the top and escape from the rad. keep topping it up un till no more air bubles appear. replace rad cap, lower car, go for a spin with your fingers crossed. if you still encounter problems i would recomend a new HG and preasure check the head.
the 7M head wasnt designed to be skimmed it weakens the head...


HTH
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
I think the comment about coolant being forced out of the overflow bottle is the cinch here.

No leaks in the cyc?
No white smoke (Steam) all the time?
No external leaks?
Is your oil foamy or does it look like chocolate milk? (This indicates coolant in the oil, and you have an internal leak. Likely at the HG.)

Put a really long hose on the coolant overflow tank, so it pokes out the side of the hood. (Don't roll your window down on this test eh?)

Then drive the car. When your driving, watch what happens. (On turbo cars, when you make boost, it shoots coolant out the hose.) On a NA, I would think under load, when your car is going down the road or whatever is causing it to get hot will show up with some coolant being blown out the tank.

One note. Don't over fill the tank. Fill it to the right "cold" level, and like the other posts note, jack up the front of the car, and burp the system so you don't have any air pockets. If your still pushing coolant out the tank, have no air pockets? I'd say it was a leaking head gasket.

Make sure you tourqe to 72-75 ft lbs on new stock bolts, or just bite the bullet and buy the ARP's for a few bucks more and run 85lbs with never a problem to be found.

I don't agree that you "Have" to replace the head if you want to machine it. BS on a NA engine that is NEVER going to see the kinds of pressures most turbo motors do, and I don't see them failing right and left due to the head being too thin. I think if your going to shoot for a 1000hp engine, then a new head might be a good idea.
If your just doing a rebuild on a daily driver, the old head machined right is fine.
 

bluemax

The Family Man
Mar 30, 2005
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Orange County, CA
Supranut,
You don't know if the water pump is the cause of the heating problems unless you change it. The impellers might just be a little worn causing the problems. The pump will still pump water.
If you've ruled out the HG, changed the radiator cap, pressure tested the system, and checked the radiator, you might give it a try.
You might also replace the hoses. Sometimes the hoses colapses.
 
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supranut

Guest
Thank You all for the great suggestions! Just got back from a super week fishing. Unfortunately my mechanic did not have much time to look at the car but I get to keep his BMW till he does. Eddie the Eagle I will mention the leaky heater matrix possibilty and air lock so he can try jacking up the car. I remember a few years ago a supra owner was having a similar problem and a mechanic actally hoisted the car almost to vertical burped it and the problem was gone. He said he couldn't believe his eyes when he saw his car hoisted to that positon. When I first looked at the car my mechanic saw oil in the coolant and thats why after I bought the car we had the head gasket job done. I don't understand about the long hose coming out the hood and how it could show me what is causing the problem by coolant coming out. I know the car will overheat and the coolant will come out because of the temp of the coolant. If you could clarify that point maybe it's worth a try. Adjuster when the HG was replaced the cylinder heads were machined like they are supposed to be so that shouldn't be the problem don't you think? Blue Max my mechanic took all the hoses off and checked for any blockages which he didn't see. Interesting idea about collapsing hoses. Since I've changed so many things so far if the burping goes ok I might as well change the water pump as well. My guy checked it thought it was working really well. I just hope with all your suggestions that I can get through this without having to take the whole darn engine apart and cost me big bucks. I'm very lucky my mechanic hates to charge me much for his labour but he is so much in demand I feel guilty of all the time he has spent on it so far. One day he spent the entire day trying to find the problem. Anyway sorry for the long reply but wanted to say thanks and answer your suggestions please keep them coming if there are any other ideas....TT :1zhelp:
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Well, the hose off the coolant tank dump shows "when" it's losing coolant. (On the turbo cars, it's when you make boost, it just blows coolant out like someone turned on the garden hose. Then it mostly stops when your not boosting.)

If your missing the first 6" of your undercover, that might have something to do with this, but only a minimal part. It's just going to dump air that come in through the grille out the botterm v/s being pulled through the radiator. Either get a complete one that goes from the bumper cover to the oil pan, or at the very minimum, from the bumper cover to the lower tie bar under the radiator.

I'm guessing your not running a shroud anymore? That hurts fan performance too as air is just pushed off the ends of the fan blades, and not really moved the way you want it to. (Think air planes. Prop planes are not as effective as jets due to the shroud around the jet engines.)

I think it was noted, but by chance did your E-fan get wired wrong so it's pushing air v/s pulling it? (Assuming it's been mounted on the engine side of the radiator.) With it setup like this, the car would idle fine, and might even be fine around town at slow speeds and in traffic, but at highway speeds, the fan is trying to move air "forward" against the incoming air from the grille, and it would cause a problem.

Your mechanic should have a gauge/tool that replaces the radiator cap with a pressure gauge and pump/shrader vavle. (To pressureize the system) This is designed to check for leaks. I think if you leave it on the car while running, it would show any pressure spikes, or vac conditions as the coolent is sucked out. (Blown HG for example.) When running, the pressure gauge should come up as the system heats and expands, but it should not bounce too much.

Last, if they have not taken the pump off and inspected the pump vanes, they don't know what kind of condition they are in. Rusted vanes, or missing vanes will not move the coolant properly, and might be causing your problem.
 
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supranut

Guest
Hi Adjuster my car is a NA and as I mention the will get too hot and the coolant will start to spew out. I'll check on the shroud but the fan is covered I believe. I guess the fan could be mounted the wrong way but I highly doubt that my mechanic would make that mistake. Pressure tests have been done on the rad and there wasn't any problems there. I will suggest that the water pump be checked again but as I stated he said he was impressed the way it was working. Thanks again for the replies......TT
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Fan is easy to check. Just start the car, and see if it's blowing lots of air over the engine, or just a little. (Some will be deflected by the radiator, so you might feel air being "blown back" but that would just be disturbed air escaping around the fan blades/shroud on the E fan.)

You should have ALOT of air blowing back over the engine.
If you feel air flowing out of the front while the car is sitting still, the E fan might be wired wrong. (Reverse the wires, and the fan direction should change.)
 
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supranut

Guest
:1zhelp: Well we have now changed the water pump and checked the fan and shroud, hoses. I mentioned the jacking up of the car to try and burp any air lock out the darn thing. If this doesn,t work my mechanic and myself are at a complete loss of what to do next. All help greatly appreciated.....TT :1zhelp:
 

RacerXJ220

Interdimensional
Mar 30, 2005
1,504
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Abalama
It's inside your engine. Something's obviously wrong, but it needs to be rechecked. I would change the HG again, and while it's apart, you can have everything checked the right way.

Spending all this time and money buying new fans, shrouds, ect, is not going to fix this problem IMO.
 
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supranut

Guest
Thanks for the reply RacerXJ220 that's basically what I'm trying to avoid since I already had a HG job when I bought the car. I'll be looking at over a $1000 to do the same thing over again and if it isn't the HG lovely here we go again. I'm really praying the big burp does the job. Keep those suggestions coming in please. :1zhelp:
 

T701jz

3M ENGINEER - R.&.D
Jul 23, 2005
657
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Santa Clarita Ca.
I hope they put the HG correct in it. If I'm not mistaken you could make a mistake putting the HG reverse and don't even realise it because the bolt pattern are lign up. Then you will blocked the ports where the water goes. I think.
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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T701jz said:
I hope they put the HG correct in it. If I'm not mistaken you could make a mistake putting the HG reverse and don't even realise it because the bolt pattern are lign up. Then you will blocked the ports where the water goes. I think.
WTF?
 

T701jz

3M ENGINEER - R.&.D
Jul 23, 2005
657
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Santa Clarita Ca.
I had a 280z once and the mech. had that mistake. I'm not sure if the HG can be mistaken or even can be done on the supra. Just a thought, seems every thing had been tried already.
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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There are 10 area's on a 7m HG that wouldn't line up if you tried that and you'd need to be stoned or stupid not to notice you'd put it on wrong.

The second you filled any fluids Oil Or Water you'd have wet feet ;)!

Been ages since I've worked on a Datto L motor but from memory the Timing Case section of the HG wouldn't line up at all if it's not on correctly.
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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T7: Sorry if you think I was ragging on you.......

If your mechanic told you he'd put your 280z HG on backwards/Back to Front or any other way than the correct direction he's talking shit or stoned.

Again from memory (it's been the best part of 15 years) but I seem to remember the Oil Supply for the Cam goes up through the block deck/gasket/head and if he's assembled it wrong the motor would have ran for maybe 20 minutes and then toasted the Cam!

Again I'm not trying to be a smartarse.
 

T701jz

3M ENGINEER - R.&.D
Jul 23, 2005
657
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It didn't come in to my head at all,no appology necessary. Just exactly what happened (no oil and no water circulation) engine siezed.
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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Damn! hate when that happens :(..

I'm not sure if SupraNut has tried it yet but a test kit for combustion gases in the coolant would settle it once and for all.

My "guess" is it's been overheated a few times and the Head is now soft on the exhaust side so when it get hot it lifts allowing Combustion pressure into the water jacket.
 
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supranut

Guest
IJ and T701jz I have overheated a number of times but I have never let the tempeture guage reach the red zone. It's been close a couple of times but each time I pulled over let it cool down and topped up the rad and carried on. So I believe I haven't damaged the HG during this angonizing struggle. This test kit you are reffering to for combustion gasses in the coolant is this something I buy from Toyota or can I purchase this from any auto parts place? Is it expensive. When you say it would settle it once and for all, sorry for the question but what things would it settle once and for all? Thanks for the continued responses guys and girls please keep them coming I'm hoping we hit the nail on the head one of these times..... :1zhelp: ....TT