Motorcycles - First time buyer/rider

[sharpsupra]

I can vouch for that - even a full dressed FLSTC will be blown all over the road in crosswinds, and that's a good 700-800lb bike, close to 1,000 lbs with me on it.

very true...however certain bikes are harder to control in a crosswind. i had two machines that were particularly wild in the wind. a yamaha vmax and a yamaha 700 maxim x.

im not shure why but i think it cuz they had heavy engines that sit low on the bike. but ive owned many bikes over the years and some handle the wind better than others....especially crosswind. the vmax i had was so bad in a crosswind it made you wnat to go home lol.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I passed! Woo! Now time to buy a bike!

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[TomFraser]

I just started riding at the beginning of 2011.

My first piece of advice is to not buy a street bike, but start off with a dirt bike, and do all your learning and crashing with that.

My next piece of advice is not to ride with anybody when you first buy your bike, I'm friends with a lot of stupid people on 2 wheels, and most people cannot control themselves enough to not keep up if their riding skills aren't developed enough to do so safely.

Next, One of the arguments people will have against you getting a liter bike will be: You will never get good at riding bikes if you do not start off with 600cc bike, as you will not need to corner fast to keep up with people. My argument against this would be you shouldn't be keeping up with anybody. The bike will only go as fast as you make it go.

Some valid arguments for not getting a fast bike would be the ease of going 12 o clock with a clutch dump, or throttle twist when you're in powerband. You must remember that when you are scared your first reaction is to jump back which tends to make you twist your wrists, on a 250cc, not a big deal... on a 1000+cc you're probably dead.

The few times I've seen people go down were in corners... start slow and accelerate. Some people get scared mid turn because they took it too fast and use the brake, leading to a bad crash. If you took a corner too fast you must think:
1) can I brake
2) probabbly not, so keep leaning as far as you safely can, while controlling throttle (more or less depending on what is safe)
3) Where will I end up as I take the corner at a different line that I was expecting (the other lane? the dirt?)
4) do not take corners too fast, lol... if you want to "enjoy" a road, ride it a few times so you are aware of every spec of sand on it.

My first bike was a 2002 Honda Super Blackbird (cbr1100xx)


Not a good first bike in most people's opinion, because it is fast (Honda's hayabusa equivalent), and relatively heavy. But I started slow, rode for about 2000 miles completely alone (because I know myself, and I'm an idiot when I can show off). It was all about not putting myself into the wrong position when I was new to the bike.

I've only ever had one close call. I was taking a corner too sharply and too slow a speed and I felt the bike start falling too far into a lean. I opened the throttle enough to catch this and went wide into the other lane. I learned from this and have had no other close calls (only 6000 miles on the bike by me though).

I never ride if I'm not in the mood to be paying attention either... I'm aware of every car around me at all times, and little things like noticing a car that might want to change lanes, even before the driver has signaled or hinted can save your life, maybe when passing a car on the highway just do so quickly and keep a finger on the horn... always do the other drivers paying attention for them.

One thing I have never done is have even a sip of alcohol and get on the bike. I will have a few beers and drive a car, but would never do the same for a bike, I do not know why, but I just won't.

Just some advice / thoughts / experiences I figured I'd share. I should not I'm only 20 so you know where the advice is coming from.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I just started riding at the beginning of 2011.

My first piece of advice is to not buy a street bike, but start off with a dirt bike, and do all your learning and crashing with that.

My next piece of advice is not to ride with anybody when you first buy your bike, I'm friends with a lot of stupid people on 2 wheels, and most people cannot control themselves enough to not keep up if their riding skills aren't developed enough to do so safely.

Next, One of the arguments people will have against you getting a liter bike will be: You will never get good at riding bikes if you do not start off with 600cc bike, as you will not need to corner fast to keep up with people. My argument against this would be you shouldn't be keeping up with anybody. The bike will only go as fast as you make it go.

Some valid arguments for not getting a fast bike would be the ease of going 12 o clock with a clutch dump, or throttle twist when you're in powerband. You must remember that when you are scared your first reaction is to jump back which tends to make you twist your wrists, on a 250cc, not a big deal... on a 1000+cc you're probably dead.

The few times I've seen people go down were in corners... start slow and accelerate. Some people get scared mid turn because they took it too fast and use the brake, leading to a bad crash. If you took a corner too fast you must think:
1) can I brake
2) probabbly not, so keep leaning as far as you safely can, while controlling throttle (more or less depending on what is safe)
3) Where will I end up as I take the corner at a different line that I was expecting (the other lane? the dirt?)
4) do not take corners too fast, lol... if you want to "enjoy" a road, ride it a few times so you are aware of every spec of sand on it.

My first bike was a 2002 Honda Super Blackbird (cbr1100xx)
View attachment 53900

Not a good first bike in most people's opinion, because it is fast (Honda's hayabusa equivalent), and relatively heavy. But I started slow, rode for about 2000 miles completely alone (because I know myself, and I'm an idiot when I can show off). It was all about not putting myself into the wrong position when I was new to the bike.

I've only ever had one close call. I was taking a corner too sharply and too slow a speed and I felt the bike start falling too far into a lean. I opened the throttle enough to catch this and went wide into the other lane. I learned from this and have had no other close calls (only 6000 miles on the bike by me though).

I never ride if I'm not in the mood to be paying attention either... I'm aware of every car around me at all times, and little things like noticing a car that might want to change lanes, even before the driver has signaled or hinted can save your life, maybe when passing a car on the highway just do so quickly and keep a finger on the horn... always do the other drivers paying attention for them.

One thing I have never done is have even a sip of alcohol and get on the bike. I will have a few beers and drive a car, but would never do the same for a bike, I do not know why, but I just won't.

Just some advice / thoughts / experiences I figured I'd share. I should not I'm only 20 so you know where the advice is coming from.

Thanks for sharing! A big part of the class was stressing how important it is to slow before turns. You can always romp through the exit, but go in to fast and you're toast. I'm willing to take some ego hits if anyone pushes me beyond my skill level. I'm not one to overestimate my abilities and i care more about my well being than the brief rush of a fast corner I can't handle.

I'm pretty set on a small street bike for learning. I have a strong atgatt philosophy and I'm planning on tons and tons of neighborhood time for the first season. No highways or freeways, nothing above 35 for quite some time.

I'll be doing a ton of riding alone before doing any group riding.

Have my eyes on ninja 250/500 or a gs500 for a starter bike. I'd love to move into a newer sport bike by next winter, but I don't want to rush anything so we'll see how it goes. I might love the ugly ninja 500, who knows?!

I've heard such a wide variety of advice from different people. Some say stay with a 250 or smaller, some say a 600ss is fine just be smart, some say stay with dirt, other say they are such different environments its barely worth your time.. Etc. if i've learned anything researching bike attitudes and opinions its that not many people agree on much, lol.

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[te72]

I passed! Woo! Now time to buy a bike!

Congrats man!

Thanks for sharing! A big part of the class was stressing how important it is to slow before turns. You can always romp through the exit, but go in to fast and you're toast. I'm willing to take some ego hits if anyone pushes me beyond my skill level. I'm not one to overestimate my abilities and i care more about my well being than the brief rush of a fast corner I can't handle.

Hey, no matter one's ability, there will ALWAYS be someone out there faster than ourselves. If you run into that I'd say just enjoy it and try to learn something as you watch their lines and taillights pull away from you.

I never ride if I'm not in the mood to be paying attention either... I'm aware of every car around me at all times, and little things like noticing a car that might want to change lanes, even before the driver has signaled or hinted can save your life, maybe when passing a car on the highway just do so quickly and keep a finger on the horn... always do the other drivers paying attention for them.

One thing I have never done is have even a sip of alcohol and get on the bike. I will have a few beers and drive a car, but would never do the same for a bike, I do not know why, but I just won't.

The road conditions and lack of concern shown by other drivers is what keeps me off a bike in a street environment. Now, if I lived somewhere with a track nearby, I'd be all over a 600 for the weekends. Hell, I tend to drive on the highway in my car like I would on a bike. Never stay close enough behind someone or to their sides/blind spots for longer than you have to. I still remember catching a rock over the windshield in the Miata once from the tires of a truck I was passing in no particular hurry. Was not fun... Not to mention, who's to say that person is even going to look before changing lanes? Once I get close enough to someone I'm intending to pass, I don't waste my time and just get around them.

As for the alcohol, drinking and driving ANYTHING is never a smart idea, but that's downright suicidal on a bike. Then again, if you're buzzed on a bike, you're only likely to risk your own life. Buzzed in a car, you're exposing everyone else on the road to that danger. :nono:

 

[TomFraser]

As for the alcohol, drinking and driving ANYTHING is never a smart idea, but that's downright suicidal on a bike. Then again, if you're buzzed on a bike, you're only likely to risk your own life. Buzzed in a car, you're exposing everyone else on the road to that danger. :nono:

I guess the best way to put this, is after a few beers and a few hours I am sober and will drive a car, but If I'm having a few beers and I've taken the bike I do not plan on being sober until the morning, and will not have anything to drink unless I have already made plans for the night that do not involve riding

 

[te72]

I guess the best way to put this, is after a few beers and a few hours I am sober and will drive a car, but If I'm having a few beers and I've taken the bike I do not plan on being sober until the morning, and will not have anything to drink unless I have already made plans for the night that do not involve riding

Fair enough, but I'll never be one to condone driving after drinking, although the time frame you clarify makes it more responsible than how it could have been interpreted initially.

 

[OneJoeZee]

Yo SM. I've wanted a motorcycle for years. I finally have some extra cash (No mortgage, no car payment and no kids yet. Ain't life grand? ) and I think it's time I indulge in this desire.

This fall/winter/spring I'm planning on taking a class, getting some good safety/riding gear and a cheap starter bike. I'm currently looking at the GS500 from Suzuki and a Buell Blast. Neither will set me back much and neither will punish me for my mistakes as harshly as the R6/GSXR/Daytona 675 that I eventually have my eye on.

Any riders on here? Any tips beyond the standard, "Take the MSF course", "Wear all your gear, all the time", "Ride like everyone is trying to kill you" etc...?

Do not buy a Buell Blast.... GS is a good choice though.

 

[OneJoeZee]

I just started riding at the beginning of 2011.

My first piece of advice is to not buy a street bike, but start off with a dirt bike, and do all your learning and crashing with that.

My next piece of advice is not to ride with anybody when you first buy your bike, I'm friends with a lot of stupid people on 2 wheels, and most people cannot control themselves enough to not keep up if their riding skills aren't developed enough to do so safely.

Next, One of the arguments people will have against you getting a liter bike will be: You will never get good at riding bikes if you do not start off with 600cc bike, as you will not need to corner fast to keep up with people. My argument against this would be you shouldn't be keeping up with anybody. The bike will only go as fast as you make it go.

Some valid arguments for not getting a fast bike would be the ease of going 12 o clock with a clutch dump, or throttle twist when you're in powerband. You must remember that when you are scared your first reaction is to jump back which tends to make you twist your wrists, on a 250cc, not a big deal... on a 1000+cc you're probably dead.

The few times I've seen people go down were in corners... start slow and accelerate. Some people get scared mid turn because they took it too fast and use the brake, leading to a bad crash. If you took a corner too fast you must think:
1) can I brake
2) probabbly not, so keep leaning as far as you safely can, while controlling throttle (more or less depending on what is safe)
3) Where will I end up as I take the corner at a different line that I was expecting (the other lane? the dirt?)
4) do not take corners too fast, lol... if you want to "enjoy" a road, ride it a few times so you are aware of every spec of sand on it.

My first bike was a 2002 Honda Super Blackbird (cbr1100xx)
View attachment 53900

Not a good first bike in most people's opinion, because it is fast (Honda's hayabusa equivalent), and relatively heavy. But I started slow, rode for about 2000 miles completely alone (because I know myself, and I'm an idiot when I can show off). It was all about not putting myself into the wrong position when I was new to the bike.

I've only ever had one close call. I was taking a corner too sharply and too slow a speed and I felt the bike start falling too far into a lean. I opened the throttle enough to catch this and went wide into the other lane. I learned from this and have had no other close calls (only 6000 miles on the bike by me though).

I never ride if I'm not in the mood to be paying attention either... I'm aware of every car around me at all times, and little things like noticing a car that might want to change lanes, even before the driver has signaled or hinted can save your life, maybe when passing a car on the highway just do so quickly and keep a finger on the horn... always do the other drivers paying attention for them.

One thing I have never done is have even a sip of alcohol and get on the bike. I will have a few beers and drive a car, but would never do the same for a bike, I do not know why, but I just won't.

Just some advice / thoughts / experiences I figured I'd share. I should not I'm only 20 so you know where the advice is coming from.

The issue of a big CC bike is not necessarily because they're able to go fast but more because they punish mistakes more severely. An I-4 600 is not great either.

But people will buy what they want. Some are more successful than others.


I disagree with not riding with anybody. DO ride with others but make sure you find level headed riders who are interested in your development. Experienced riders are great for setting pace and giving immediate feedback and tips.

 

[te72]

I disagree with not riding with anybody. DO ride with others but make sure you find level headed riders who are interested in your development. Experienced riders are great for setting pace and giving immediate feedback and tips.

Thinking about it now, this also seems smart, much like not swimming by yourself. What happens if you're off on your own and dump the bike? If you're alone, you might be lucky enough to have someone see you and help you out, but if you're riding in a small group, you're LIKELY to have help...

 

[suprarx7nut]

The issue of a big CC bike is not necessarily because they're able to go fast but more because they punish mistakes more severely. An I-4 600 is not great either.

But people will buy what they want. Some are more successful than others.


I disagree with not riding with anybody. DO ride with others but make sure you find level headed riders who are interested in your development. Experienced riders are great for setting pace and giving immediate feedback and tips.

Thanks for the comment Joe. Did you end up buying a 250 ninja? I remember posts of you wanting to buy one, but I'm not sure if you did or not. If so, how'd you like it?

If not, what did you end up using for learning and how much riding did it take you to feel comfortable with a quicker sport bike?

 

[mkiiSupraMan18]

I had a 250 Ninja back in high school... Awesome bike.

I drove it from southern IN, to Central IN, to Southern KY, and back to southern IN in one day when I was 16. I don't recall the mileage, but it was a freaking chunk. 0 problems with getting blown around, running 75-80 on the interstate, or gas mileage (mine didn't have a fuel gauge, that was kind of a PITA). I have ridden dirt bikes since I was... little, but other than getting used to a clutch, shifting, and braking... there's not really much else that dirt can offer you. Riding a dirt bike for XX years will not teach you proper lane position, riding in the rain, or jack asses trying to kill you...

When my son(s) turn 16 and want a bike, this is what they will get. No doubt.

That's my $.02

 

[OneJoeZee]

Thanks for the comment Joe. Did you end up buying a 250 ninja? I remember posts of you wanting to buy one, but I'm not sure if you did or not. If so, how'd you like it?

If not, what did you end up using for learning and how much riding did it take you to feel comfortable with a quicker sport bike?

That was almost 4 years ago but yes I bought an EX250. I still have it although it rarely gets out of the garage anymore. But I plan to bring it out more next year again.

It's a great bike. You can do just about whatever you want with the throttle and it won't punish you much, if at all. It will handle freeway speeds just fine as well. 65-80 is easy. It lets you learn a lot of important things about riding by taking a powerful engine, sensitive throttle, and powerful brakes out of the equation. <---Those are what get new riders in the most trouble. Misuse of the brakes and throttle because of lack of experience. Without worrying about it (on a smaller bike) things like navigating traffic, balance, making 2nd nature out of using the controls become easier and safer to become accustomed to. People who started on bigger bikes will often say that they did so and they're still here, or they didn't crash but is that really something to be proud of? Just surviving? That's like saying I never studied for tests and still got Cs.


I also have a Honda 600RR now. I put about 8500 miles (including 4 trackdays) on the 250 in about 1 year before I bought the CBR in '09.

The best thing to do is to ride a bike until you're comfortable with it (what too many people think of as 'outgrowing' a bike) and then keep riding it some more. Once you stop fearing the bike, then you really see the most growth as a rider, IMO if you allow yourself. Or you'll hit a wall (no pun intended) and stop learning if you're of the mentality that you've outgrown the bike. Know what I mean? A lot of riders do that. I hear a lot about fearing and respecting the bike, especially when someone justifies a 600 or 1000 so early in their riding career. I don't usually use those words in that context anymore. Fearing or respecting the bike doesn't mean you know jack about properly using it. You should be scared when you start. There's a lot of unknowns about the bike, your skill, and interacting with the environment around you. But the key is to reduce the fear progressively by replacing that with skill development and you want that to happen as quickly as possible. You want to know the bike and know what you can do and what you can't do, not fear what it can do or what you can't do. You want to know if a car stops X feet in front of you, you have enough skill and your bike has enough ability to stop in enough time and space. If you're new, you want to know "No, I can't stop (even if my bike is capable) so I should leave myself more room." Things like that... Whatever the situation. 'Respecting' the bike doesn't help either. I respect that Valentino Rossi is a master but I don't really understand how he can do what he does or what those GP bikes are truly capable of. But he knows and he knows his bike. Whatever your skill, whether you're a noob or a seasoned vet, you want to know what you can do.

When you're ready for a 2nd (assumed bigger) bike is dependent on you. There's no magic number for mileage or time. You don't have to get out on the track, it's not for everybody, but it sure will teach you a hell of a lot about riding and bike control and at a much more accelerated rate.

Don't feel like the EX250 is the end all be all first bike. You mentioned GS500 and Buell Blast (gag) before so I know you don't but some people think that if the 250 is too small then they'll just skip it and get a 600. There's tons of sensible bikes that aren't a 250 or a 600 for new riders. Almost anything that isn't an R6/R1, CBR, ZX-6R/10R, GSXR is a decent choice. Sport tourers, dual sports, supermotos, standards. There's lots of stuff out there other than the supersports and superbikes that get most of the attention.

Also, make peace with the fact that this activity, sport, hobby, passion, whatever it is to you has the potential to ask some injury or the ultimate sacrifice of you one day. Don't just get caught up in the vanity and glamour. I don't like to see new riders out there with what seems like little regard for their safety or mortality or just a general lack of acknowledgement about the bad side. They go down and only THEN do they think about the ugly side of motorcycles. And then they quit because bikes are 'too dangerous' all of the sudden. These are things you should have been thinking about in the first place, especially when you're new. It shouldn't freak you out and disrupt your riding to the point you make mistakes. Just acknowledge it. You may eventually decide riding is not for you in light of things like that. Or you may discover something, a feeling or an emotion that only riding a bike can give that you never knew was there that is definitely worthy of the risk.

If you want to know anything else, let me know. I have a lot of philosophies about riding others may or may not agree with. Ultimately, you have to make up your own mind after collecting as much information as you can what you think is best. At some point, the bike will stop feeling foreign and start to feel like an extension of your mind and body and riders should develop a set of beliefs about the bike/riding in addition to developing skill on the bike to make the most of that.

 

[TomFraser]

Riding with others I guess can be a good thing... I just didn't know any responsible riders to ride with, all my friends with crotch rockets tend to drive on the wild side.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Thanks Joe, I appreciate the words of experience. I like the idea of a bike that I can really push to begin with instead of a bike I have to fear for years. I completely agree with your philosophy regarding people that start on a 600 and "survive". I dont want to just survive, I want to really experience the bike and the road.

Oh, and I've pretty much eliminated the Blast from my choices. Everyone says its about the worst made bike available.

I'm aware of the risks and I'm preparing for it with an "All the gear all the time" mentality. I'm still debating riding boots and armored or kevlar pants/jeans, but I've already got the necessities (full face helmet, armored cordura jacket, leather knuckle-shielded gloves) and I plan on using them every single time, even around the neighborhood going 15 mph.

I'm sure I'll throw another question your way, but in the meantime, thanks for the response.


PS - Somewhere there's a mk3 waiting for you to get back into the Supra game. You should probably pick it up before a 17 year old ruins it...

 

[sharpsupra]

yu"ll be fine. a lil advice id like to give......dont assume that other drivers....cars and trucks SEE yu. especially at intersections. try to think ahead and drive defensively. and also i would avoid passengers . its a whole diff ballgame with someone on the back. especially if they are nervous or have never ridden b4. have fun and enjoy!! i'll have me another bike as soon as i can convince my GF im not gonna get killed.:icon_razz

 

[flight doc89]

yu"ll be fine. a lil advice id like to give......dont assume that other drivers....cars and trucks SEE yu. especially at intersections. try to think ahead and drive defensively. and also i would avoid passengers . its a whole diff ballgame with someone on the back. especially if they are nervous or have never ridden b4. have fun and enjoy!! i'll have me another bike as soon as i can convince my GF im not gonna get killed.:icon_razz

I second this quote. People will look straight at you and not see you. The last time I drove my bike, I was driving it home from the shop that was 2 hours from my house. On this single trip, I had 3 near/misses.
First, a car pulled out right in front of me in Montgomery, and I laid on both brakes and skidded a little but I avoided a wreck.
Second, I was on hwy 82 almost into Tuscaloosa when someone in a big damn SUV pulling a trailer pulled out across both lanes of traffic. This time I knew there was NO way to brake in time, so I gunned it and passed on the shoulder (I know that sounds like I was being a hoon, and it probably looked that way to other drivers, but you weren't there. I had to make a snap choice)
Third, I was still on hwy 82 in Tuscaloosa near University Mall. I was boxed in in slow moving traffic when the guy on my left started coming over into my lane. I had nowhere to go, so I laid on my horn for 2 full seconds before I literally kicked the door panel on this SUV. That finally got his attention and I made it home safe after that.
Remember, this was all one trip.
That was 2 years ago. I haven't ridden my bike since. Not sure when I will ride again. If I do start riding again, I don't think it will be on the road. I know that I am a good rider, but I can't account for all of the other drivers.
Watch the other drivers. Continuously. Assume Nothing

 

[Supracentral]

Third, I was still on hwy 82 in Tuscaloosa near University Mall. I was boxed in in slow moving traffic when the guy on my left started coming over into my lane. I had nowhere to go, so I laid on my horn for 2 full seconds before I literally kicked the door panel on this SUV.

I have punched more windows, windshields and doors than I care to remember...

I once had an old lady in a Lincoln pull up behind me at a traffic light (where I had been stopped for a full 30 seconds) and knock me over. This is on a full size Harley softtail with open pipes. I'm a pretty big guy and I was on a pretty big bike, kind of hard to miss...

Then, when I got up, stood my bike up, and walked over to her car, she rolls up the window, holds down the horn and starts screaming like I'm holding a hatchet and threatening to kill her... I just walked back to my bike shaking my head and headed down the road. There are some people who just shouldn't be allowed out in public let alone to drive...

 

[te72]

There are some people who just shouldn't be allowed out in public let alone to drive...

And this is why I stick to the philosophy of "two wheels bad", despite every gearhead bone in my body knowing full well how much fun it is being out in the open, feeling so close and connected to the road... If I ever got a bike, it would be strictly a track toy. This is kinda also why I'm leaning away from building a 7 replica to daily in decent weather, unfortunately.

On the subject of people that shouldn't be on the road driving, that's why I FULLY support the idea of automated cars. People in general can't be bothered to give a shit as it is, and I believe that i was Clarkson who said something along the lines of "if you're not interested in an activity, you're not going to be very good at it, so why do it?"

 

[suprarx7nut]

I basically drive the Supra like everyone's out to get me as is. I go out of my way to never tailgate, leave a "way out" at all times, never ride a blind spot, slow for most intersections, etc... With the Supra it's not because I'm trying to save my own life, but rather I couldn't bear to see the car get hit.

Now moving to a bike where the I dont really care about the $3500 bike, but I'm incredibly concerned about my own well-being: I'll be wide eyed with my head on a swivel every second.

If it weren't for other drivers I would probably be ok with riding with less gear. However, given the # of crazy bitches and careless assholes out there, I'll be geared up every time. Even riding to my neighbors, lol. The idea of being hit by another driver is my biggest concern now and will likely be the only reason I would ever stop riding.