EMS 6860 firing order help. Do I use 1,6,3,4,2,5 or 1,5,3,6,2,4

[vangb2]

I've been have trouble keeping my car idle or running. I have just finish the wiring on my 1jz a week ago with the loom that came with the Motorsport 6860 EMS. I use the firing order of 1,5,3,6,2,4. My car is running crappy. At first I thought it was software issue and read the manual like a million times, but now i'm thinking it might be the firing order that is wrong. When I use the setting with 3 ignitors, cylinder 1,2, and 3 sparks only but it can idle, but its super rough. When I set it to sequential mode, all plug fires but it seems to kind of stall and surges but then with a few more crank it will catch on and run for about 20 seconds with misfire than it will shut off. I've been reading on a bunch of forms and everyone confirms that 1,5,3,6,2,4 is correct, but also everyone confirms that 1,6,3,4,2,5 is correct. I want to run a sequential setting.

This is what I have now:

Output1-->Fire cylinder 1
Output2-->Fire cylinder 5
Output3-->Fire cylinder 3
Output4-->Fire cylinder 6
Output5-->Fire cylinder 2
Output6-->Fire cylinder 4

Should I use this?
Output1-->Fire cylinder 1
Output2-->Fire cylinder 6
Output3-->Fire cylinder 3
Output4-->Fire cylinder 4
Output5-->Fire cylinder 2
Output6-->Fire cylinder 5

Any tips will help. Thanks

 

[figgie]

well,

the first order of business is getting the fire order 100% correct. The correct order is 1,5,3,6,2,4.

Think about it this way.

1&6 are tied together. 2&5 and 3&4.

If you fire #1 which is at TDC that means #6 is at TDC. If you fire #6 next, it will be out by about 120 degrees.

now with that said. Is your base timing at 10 degree? you might be way to advanced.

Seeing as you are in Minnesota

Shane at DB motorsports. He should be able to get you squared away.

 

[vangb2]

Thanks figgie, I needed a confirmation. I have checked all my wiring and figure out that I wired some wires in the wrong order. I fixed it with the confirmed firing order and now it works like a charm. I am tuning some stuff as for now.

The only problem I have left is the stock IACV. I don't know if I should post another forum about this but my problem is that the 6860 ecu has 4 wires for the IACV. Violet, violet/blk, violet/orange, and violet/red. I need to use all 4 wires, but which color is for S1,S2,S3, and S4 on the IACV? Is the stock 1jz IACV a PWM or Stepper type? I'm not even sure how to set the IACV to activate if I get the wirings correct.

 

[Flateric]

I had the firing order a little screwed myself at first despite numerous double checks.

I will check out my IASC pins for ya here... I am using the AEM series2 not a 6860 but I redid all my wiring one line at a time. My idle air control valve is functioning correctly and unless you use an entirely different ecu connector that the PNP series2 you should be able to copy my wiring lines with success as far as I know.

brb

 

[TurboStreetCar]

Is the jz ISC similar to the 7M? Based on the S1-4 i believe so. do you also have B1&2? Sounds like a 6 pole stepper.

Im also wondering how this would get porperly hooked up to the 8860.

I have wired mine up to the 8860 as per the manual as "type1" But i am unsure how the stinger knows what "type" of circuit its working with. Obviously it hasnt worked for me.

If anyone knows how to get a stock stepper ISC to work please post details.

 

[vangb2]

I don't know if the AEM is similar to the EMS on controlling the ISC. The 1jz is 6 poles. 2 battery and 4 (pull to ground) steps for opening or closing. I have spent the last 4 days on figuring how to set it but no luck. I have tryed at least 40 different settings. I don't think the PNP harness will do the job either. I bought my EMS from Aaron at Driftmotion. I am tempted to call him but I don't want to bother him.

For now, I manually open up the ISCV enough that air flows through so it can idle around 600 rpm. I'm starting to think the the 6860 can not control the stock ISCV because I have read some forums and people are using after market idler or idler from other cars.

I'm hoping that someone that has made it work is kind enough to help on the configuration. The manual is so broad because this is a universal ecu.

 

[figgie]

vangb2

according to the wiring instructions on the EMS site.

the x860 is able to handle a 6 wire, 5 wire and a 4 wire stepper motor.

the stock IAC is is a 6 wire design but can be used as a 5 wire by paralleling the B1 & B2.

The S1-S4 go to the ECU while B1 & B2 are 12+ Vdc.

so the wiring would be:

Violet => White/Yellow on stock harness (feeds S1)
Violet/Black => Green/White on stock harness (feeds S2)
Violet/Red => Blue/Red on stock harness (Feeds S3)
Violet/Orange = > Red/Black on stock harness (Feeds S4)

Looking at the software. I am going to guess you enable the option #12 for one of the circuits (I would do circuit #1). Leave the default numbers. Stepper motor speed = fast. Max steps = 255. and give that a go.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

I have set mine up to work on my 7M. The wiring is as follows:

Purple - s3 
Purple/black - s2 
Purple/red - s4
Purple/orange - s1

you have to close the ISC in order for it to open it and controll it properly. The settings really need to be played around with to get it right. I havnt gotten it right yet where it will controll idle perfect yet but wiring it like that allowed the 8860 to properly open and close it.

 

[Flateric]

You are correct about the ISCV being a 6-pole stepper motor and correct about the 2 wires for power. If you are directly looking at the plug with the clip facing upwards the center 2 pins (Or pins 2 and 5, going by pin numbers) are you power and can be tied together and wired to voltage source (usually your main efi relay if I remember correctly).

Leaving pins 1, 3, 4 and 6 as your pull to ground signal wires.

I just re-read your post and realized you are running a 1JZ not a 2JZ so giving you exact pins is not going to help you.

But those 4 pins on each side of the middle power pins shouldn't be too hard to try and get right. The stepper will not suffer any bad consequences from you trying each combo of 16 till you get it right. And as long as you have the correct 4 pins on your ecu it will be fine also.

I bet Aaron would not mind a bit hearing from you if you have any questions though. I also got my series2 ECU from him along with alot of other things and find them always to be super helpful.

But for sure you should get it by just trying the 4 pins in different configs, no hamr in trying IF as I say you have got the correct pins on your ECU. Hope this helps


/------\
| 1 2 3 |
| 4 5 6 |
\------/

RED - Power
BLUE - Signal pin. (pulled to ground)

 

[TurboStreetCar]

7m diagram. Probrably the same.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=FI&P=107

 

[vangb2]

My problem is that, I have wired it the way figgie said to be but it doesn't work. I have been testing the terminals on the ISC plug and it seems like there is 12v coming out of the wrong terminals in every different setting I have use. I have 12v to 3 and 5, but sometime there is also 12v on 1,3,4, and 6. Does the reverse acting use 12v or ground? I have it uncheck on all test settings.

I think I might try nosechuck wiring and see if it will work.

Thanks to all of your help

 

[vangb2]

BTW, that diagram link that nosechunks posted is the one that I used. By following the opening and closing steps, I was able to make it open and close when bench testing. I'm pretty sure that the 1jz use the same as 7m.

Also, why is there a coolant bypass built into the ISCV? Does the ISCV get so hot that it needs coolant to cool it down? I'm about to rip the fittings off.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

The diagram i posted works, at least for me on my personal car, i personally used it.

If there the same or the same circuitry it should work for you aswell.

Dont check mark reverse acting, leave it as normal.

The 8860 will apply a ground so you may see B+ on other terminals if there un-grounded at the time your checking them. If theres no ground theres no voltage drop.

 

[vangb2]

Ok, Thanks nosechunk. As far as the setting, did you select PWM or Stepper? what frequency did you use? and whats the setting did you use for max step?

 

[TurboStreetCar]

I left the 255 as max steps as per Figgies post on the Toyota 6 pole stepper isc.

It should be set to stepper not pwm. Frequency is unused and don't forget to manually close the valve before connecting as I don't believe it will close it automaticly.

I've been playing with it but I can't really come up with a good reliable setup. I usually just end up getting a good idle and unplugging it so it's consistent. It will idle good but then loose the position and start over so the idle is higher then desired. I'm still trying to play with it as o want it to work.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

Hows it working? (assuming it is)

 

[vangb2]

Finally I had a chance today after work to rewire it. I still can't get the EMS to control the motor. I logged into the aux and set it to #12 close loop idle. I did everything that was mention. I close the valve manually and check to see if the EMS was able to open it. It doesn't respond. I'm begginning to think that it's a disfunctional option or it might just not work properly with the stock idle. Any other suggestions? I'm running into a dead end here.

 

[TurboStreetCar]

you have it set to stepper? Did you wire B+ to B1&2 terminals? could you post a picture of your setup screen?

 

[vangb2]

Thanks for you help nosechunk. I've been so busy. Full time student and full time job. I'll be working on my car tonight and I will post a screen shot of my set up on the Idle loop.

I do have it set to stepper. Base Frequency is 89.9. Initial open is 20 and cold is 60. Idle vacuum keeps on changing so I can't give you an accurate reading.

Since after your configuration advice, I have played around with the wiring and for some reason I got it close but now it will not open. I'v tryed setting it to manual and auto but it will not open. I have to use the throttle plate to control the idle for now.

I've also follow the steps in the manual to set it but it's not working. Maybe you have a different procedure that you use to adjust the IAC. If you do, may you share it with me (or the forums).

 

[TurboStreetCar]

Try changing the "initial Open" setting to larger and smaller numbers to see if it changes the engine speed. Initial is the one you set the idle with, the Additional cold start is the one that wont change ISC position unless the engine is cold. Leave it set to Manual when playing around with it because when its set to Automatic it will be trying to adjust for the idle rpm you set it to.

This is my setup screen, Your steps may be different depending on how you adjust the throttle body but thats the general idea.