Need help/input on 88 n/a

[farscapeone]

hope this is the right section to ask this.
alright. first things first. the car isnt low on coolant, doesnt leak it, and there is no sludge in the oil or coolant. second, there is no warm air that comes out of the vents what so ever...even after running for 30 mins. lastly, the stock temp guage doesnt work in the car, so there is an aftermarket temp guage hooked up. car seems to run quite hot. goes from about 185 up to about 230, even up to 245 or so, according to the gauge.

my question is, is this a blown head gasket? or is a bad thermostat? or a bad water pump?

after the car has been running and the temp goes that high, i'll shut it off and get out and feel the radiator and the cap....they are barely even warm, barely. is that normal? there doesn't seem to be a lot of heat coming off of the motor either.

there are no bubbling, hissing, steaming noises or nothing. i'm very confused on what the hell the problem is.

like today, nice and hot outside, went out, fired her up, and runs good. has a slight stutter/hesitation when you rev it from idle(tune up needed?bhg?) let it idle and not mess with it, seems to idle at about 1200-1400rpm. after about 10mins or once the temp reaches like 190-210, it idles downs and goes to about 800-900, maybe a little lower and has no stutter anymore. but the temp on the aftermarket guage says its like 230 or a little bit higher. no white smoke out the pipe.

any input would be greatly appreciated. really dont want to get rid of this car, hoping to fix it.

 

[Nomad707]

you most likely have an airbubble in your system.

Also theres a cutoff valve for coolant that goes to the heater core, yours is stuck, you have to bypass this valve.. or rig it to stay open.

burp your cooling system.

 

[farscapeone]

i've read about 'burping' the car, but every time i read it, its different. are you familar with burping the car? how would you do it?

also, any post or pics and diy on how to bypass the cutoff valve? i believe i saw something earlier but now i can not find it anywhere.

 

[Nomad707]

i rigged mine with blue wire to show you what to do, you need to pull that valve and hold it open with wire or something, or if the engine is cold you can bypass the valve:

 

[Nomad707]

you can burp it by draining all the coolant out and running water through the system with the drainplug unplugged.

or you can drive onto a small grade or hill and run your car (to get the water upwards, to the heater core and rear of the engnie)

or you can get a burping kit from kragen

But if you open your valve up for the coolant to go into the heater core, you will probly drop your temperatures while your heater is on.

 

[farscapeone]

okay. its dark here, so i cant get out there til the morning. but i assume when you say pull that valve and hold it open, you mean to pull it down towards the ground, correct? that seems like a simple enough thing to do. and when you say bypass it when its cold, i have no idea what your talking about haha. i'll try this wire thing in the morning. hope it works.

PS: should i replace the tstat with the lowest one i can get...i believe its a 160?

 

[Nomad707]

no, pull the lever thing upwards, and use something to secure it in the highest position you can... this lets hot coolant into the heater core... will drop coolant temps a few degrees,

Dont replace your tstat with a low range, stay around 180 or 190.. And dont swap it out untill you open the valve and burp the system.

 

[CRE]

Hehe, I like your S/N...

The high temp could be the thermostat. It's pretty easy to swap and they don't cost much.

As for the heater not working, that's usually due to the VSV which controls the heater control valve going out. On the passenger side firewall there is a small assembly which has a coolant line running to it from the back of the head.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/EPC/291220/catalog.aspx?F=8716&P=2

You can bypass the VSV for the time being. If you do this your A/C won't be as cold when it's on full though.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41636&highlight=heater+vsv
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12681&highlight=heater+vsv
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7058&highlight=heater+vsv


Someone had posted an illustration on how to bypass the VSV, but I can't find it. It's simple though. You disconnect the hoses from the VSV and connect them to each other directly, keep the little black and white valve between the two hoses.

 

[farscapeone]

you can burp it by draining all the coolant out and running water through the system with the drainplug unplugged.

as to the first one...are you talking about the drain plug on the bottom of the radiator? so drain the coolant, leave the radiator plug open and start the car and just stick a hose in the radiator?

or you can drive onto a small grade or hill and run your car (to get the water upwards, to the heater core and rear of the engnie)

the second one...so like pulling it up on car ramps would work, right? you just pull the car up and run it? anything else?

But if you open your valve up for the coolant to go into the heater core, you will probly drop your temperatures while your heater is on.

i'm not sure what you mean by this...is this what you were talking about in the picture you posted?

 

[farscapeone]

Hehe, I like your S/N...

thank you. Farscape rules.

You can bypass the VSV for the time being. If you do this your A/C won't be as cold when it's on full though.

a/c doesnt work anyway, the pump is off the car....you say the time being...is it bad to run the car with it bypassed?

Someone had posted an illustration on how to bypass the VSV, but I can't find it. It's simple though. You disconnect the hoses from the VSV and connect them to each other directly, keep the little black and white valve between the two hoses.

i believe thats what i saw earlier but i'm not sure. cant find it now

 

[Nomad707]

as to the first one...are you talking about the drain plug on the bottom of the radiator? so drain the coolant, leave the radiator plug open and start the car and just stick a hose in the radiator?


the second one...so like pulling it up on car ramps would work, right? you just pull the car up and run it? anything else?


i'm not sure what you mean by this...is this what you were talking about in the picture you posted?

1) yes, the plug on the bottom, NO dont run the car while flushing... silly.

2) Yes you can run it up on ramps and run it when its cold with the cap off (i think)

3)yes, thats the valve that lets hot coolant into the heater core

 

[farscapeone]

1) yes, the plug on the bottom, NO dont run the car while flushing... silly.

lol, that was funnier than hell. i haven't heard the word silly in ages.

thats what i thought, but just wanted to make sure.

okay, tomorrow i'm going to pull it on the ramps, drain the fluid, leave the drain open, bypass/rig that valve, and flush the system and see what that does. hopefully that fixes the problem. if not, i'll wait for the car to cool back down, and run it with the cap off and try it that way.

been reading that these supra's are notorious for heating problems, seems odd to me, being such a decent car. always reading about blown head gaskets and now this burping thing.

 

[CRE]

Solid Farscape fan here.

There isn't anything wrong with running with the heater core always open. When the VSV is functional it's open most of the time. The only time the heater control valve doesn't redirect coolant through the heater core is when the A/C is on high... or when the VSV breaks.

been reading that these supra's are notorious for heating problems, seems odd to me, being such a decent car. always reading about blown head gaskets and now this burping thing.

(see: 20 year old cars)

 

[farscapeone]

and that valve could be whats causing the whole problem? i'll just bypass it then.

lol, not to turn it into a scaper tread or nothing, but good seeing a fellow Farscape fan. i was mad pissed when they cancelled it. felt very dissappointed with The Peacekeeper Wars, want more. lmao. now i want to go watch the series from start to finish(that set me back quite a bit).

anyway, thanks for your help. i'll post back up tomorrow and post how the car's doing. hope this fixes it, otherwise its up for sale.

 

[CRE]

Yeah, Peacekeeper Wars left me sorely disappointed. I've watched the whole series a couple times now.

The heater core valve probably isn't causing your high temp issues, just the no heat issue. To test it pop the hood and watch the armature which runs from the bell shaped diaphragm while someone starts the car. It should move. If it doesn't just run the vacuum line so it doesn't run through the VSV (that'd be the blue and black electric valve).

You may also want to check your timing.

 

[farscapeone]

i actually just went outside and with a flashlight looked at the valve...and it is moving. so i'm guessing that thats not the problem.

 

[cuel]

Thermostat is stuck closed. Its easy(and cheap) enough to change. I'd try changing it first, then check the heater again. There is a t.stat called a "fail safe" that you can get. Its around $15, but fails open instead of closed. Cheap insurance. If you don't put the stock 195 back in, the lowest I'd go is 185. The motor should run at a specific temperature. It effects how the fuel injection and timing works, as well as the ISC. Its also possible the water pump isn't working. You can visually check it by looking for a stain coming from the little hole right on top of the water pump by the pulley. Usually, the bearings go out, and the shaft will wobble, breaking the seal and letting water through that hole. If you continue running those high temps., you will suffer from bhg.

To burp the system(after you change the t.stat), fill the system,put the rad. cap back on, start the car, and turn the heater on full. After the car reaches a high enough temp. to open the t.stat., turn the car off, and let it cool down for 45 mins. or so. CAREFULLY open the rad. cap, and top off the radiator. Check it before you drive it every day(cold), and top off as necessary. Make sure the reservoir is filled to the mark as well. It may take a day or 2 to run all the air out correctly.

 

[farscapeone]

welp, little update. went out and burped the car today. ran it for about 20mins, pulled it on the ramps. let it sit for about 10mins, opened the radiator cap, fired it up, and filled with coolant. it was low, took some time to fill it up. after it came to the top, it bubbled back down, i filled more, it would overflow some, then go back down. kept doing this. turned the heat on high 85, and no heat. after it seamed like it was about as full as it could get, i put the cap on, took it off the ramps, and let it idle. stayed at like 210. tried the heat a few mins later, and i got a little bit of warmth, not much. never went over 210 for about an hour worth of idling and some reving.

3 hours later, i go out to move the car and let it idle for a few mins. was staying steady at about 170. then i heard like a dripping sound, and there was fluid coming out of my overflow(which i had left full) and was all over the ground. a little bit was coming out of the cap(time for new cap?), went and checked the temp and it was about 230-240(according to that gauge). shut it off. havent messed with it since.


tomorrow i'm going to do the tstat. i hope to hell that fixes it. by the way, that valve thing...it moves up and down fine. should i still bypass it or use the wire idea from the first page? car is a real pain in my ass.

 

[jetjock]

Gotta love that Cletus job on the water valve. The open EVAP line in the engine compartment is priceless too. Reminds me of a car that had the back end explode on the highway in front of me one day. Got my attention I tell ya.

 

[cuel]

I used to know what the flash point was for gasoline vapors....

http://www.chemistry.ohio-state.edu/ehs/handbook/flammabl/firetech.htm

"One might tend to discount the high hazards of flammable liquids when noting the relatively high ignition temperatures [gasolines, for example, are in the 500 to 800 F ranger. But what must be recognized is that an extremely small area and duration of temperature contact is all that's needed to set flammable vapor aflame. A static spark with the duration of a few thousandths of a second, contacting a few molecules of the vapor/air mixture is enough to raise the temperatures above the ignition point."

Seems last time I checked, a hot exhaust manifold can reach these temps...

I've seen a few cars that had fires under the hood caused by a leaky injector, fuel line, or fuel filter.