Name That Problem! (2 Questions)

[Zer0DeGreeZ]

Question 1:

When I start my car, sometimes I have to hold the key in the "START" position for up to 10 seconds, sometimes more, in order for it to finally kick in and start the car.

Whats the Problem?

Question 2:

After my car is started and I start driving down the road. Every once in a while (more than not) the first quarter mile to half mile I drive my car feels really groggy and doesn't feel like it has any power. I have to hold the pedal in more just to get up to speed limit. Then after a few seconds of doing that the power will suddenly come back and the car will drive normal. Most of the time because i'm already holding the pedal down so far it will almost come back so fast that i'm speeding. Mind you when i bought the car the engine in it had ported heads, but since i've replaced the engine and heads. I believe that was the only thing the guy done to the car, everything else appears stock to the bone.

Whats the Problem?

 

[CRE]

So when you try to start the car and have to hold the key are you waiting for the engine to start cranking altogether or for it to just start running on it's own? A few possibilities if it's not cranking at all. Ignition switch, starter relay, starter or wiring.

Does it do the boggy thing only on starts where you've had to hold the key at START for several seconds? Perhaps the cold start injector is causing you to run rich by adding fuel even though the engine hasn't started turning over yet? I'm not sure if that's possible though. The CSI's got a number of controls on it, I just don't know how involved they are.

 

[Zer0DeGreeZ]

So when you try to start the car and have to hold the key are you waiting for the engine to start cranking altogether or for it to just start running on it's own? A few possibilities if it's not cranking at all. Ignition switch, starter relay, starter or wiring.

Does it do the boggy thing only on starts where you've had to hold the key at START for several seconds? Perhaps the cold start injector is causing you to run rich by adding fuel even though the engine hasn't started turning over yet? I'm not sure if that's possible though. The CSI's got a number of controls on it, I just don't know how involved they are.

Okay most of my friends think it's the ignition switch, because i hold the key in start for like 10-15 seconds before it starts. what i mean is it doesn't sound likes it doing anything. I don't here nothing going on, almost as if i didn't even try to start it or something, and then magically it suddenly picks up and starts. Mind you when i do turn it to start all the electronics do come on, it jsut doesn't start the car.

And yes I don't know how I missed it but after it gives me the starting problem thats usually when i get that groggy problem as well.

Also mind you when i had the engine put in, they gave me a new battery, but the battery is only like 425CA and like 500CCA or something around there. Which i know i need to replace, But i don't think that could be causing the starting problem? Mind you I only get that starting problem when i first start the car for the day. The rest of the day the car starts right up bnaturally and with no problems.

Hope i didn't confuse anyone with the way i write, lol. I almost confused myself.

 

[jetjock]

It's possible only if the injector is mechanically leaking. I suspect his problem is the use of multiple heads

 

[jdub]

The cold start injector functions only when the STA (start) signal is present at the ECU. The CSI time switch limits the amount of time it is allowed to function (during start) based on coolant temp...this is designed to prevent flooding. At 20 deg C coolant temp, the time goes to zero. Based on late summer OAT, it's very likely the CSI or it's circuit is not the problem.

Are you throwing any ECU codes?

Have you checked fuel pump operation and pressure?
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=FI&P=71

Edit: Disregard...reading the above (Post #3), sounds like a starter circuit problem.

 

[Zer0DeGreeZ]

It's possible only if the injector is mechanically leaking. I suspect his problem is the use of multiple heads

The engine block that the ported head WAS on was cracked when i went to go change HG. wasn't cracked in any way i've ever seen before. Wasn't up the center of the cylinder walls. wasn't from the cylinder to the oputside of the block. It just rode parrallel to the cyclinders but not touching either the cylinder wall or the outside of the block. lol.


Either way i'm using a newer block and head now. under 70k on the motor. so everything is most deffinantly stock.

I don't mean to sound dumb but i'm not really all that mechanical so i don't really know what a lot of this stuff (csi, etc.) is. Crime Scene Investigation would be my best guess. LMAO.

All jokes aside though I wasn't sure if this is the problem that would warrant the 30 Amp relay mod or not. Obviously i could start by putting a higher CA battery in (was thinking 1000 CA Optima).

As to the fuel flodding thought from earlier. it does kind of feel like the car is drowned out with fuel during the first block or two. Perhaps my car is flodding while i'm holding down the key? or something?

I really have not a clue. I look to you gear heads to figure the answer and explain it to me as if I was 2. lol.

 

[jetjock]

A two year old would take the car to a mechanic

 

[CRE]

CSI = Cold Start Injector... already mentioned that.

Thanks Jdub, couldn't recall if the CSI needed a signal from STA or not.

So, Zero, what that all means is that even though you're holding the ignition over the cold start injector still won't supply fuel until it's controller gets a signal indicating the starter is cranking.

So, if you're running rich at start you've either got an injector leaking or something else is up.

Measure the voltage at the starter and the solenoid when cranking.... if you're not mechanically inclined (as you confess) pay a mechanic to do it and keep your limbs.

Also, have you checked for error codes? http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/TechTips/engine_error_codes.aspx

 

[jetjock]

Or STA *is* active and the solenoid contacts are bad. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen that symptom when they've worn to the point arcing begins. That'd keep the CSI on for at least 8 seconds...

 

[CRE]

Shouldn't he hear the starter relay then? Provided he's got decent hearing...

 

[jetjock]

You'd think so. Didn't say if he did or didn't

In hindsight it doesn't matter though as an overly rich mixture from the CSI would not last anywhere near a quarter mile...

 

[CRE]

I've had a couple rich starts which didn't clear up for about 3 blocks.

He said he turned the key and didn't "here" anything. But the question is, as always, does he know what he's looking/listening for. I was being presumptuous.

 

[jetjock]

As always indeed.

And your car isn't stock. If you want to avoid that sort of thing stop screwing with it

 

[Poodles]

My car has always bogged a bit until it's warmed up...

Shouldn't be going WOT until it's up to operating temps anyway...

 

[jetjock]

^ Then there's something wrong with it. The entire point of EFI, aside from emissions, is to make the engine run well under all conditions. Mine does...

 

[CRE]

And your car isn't stock. If you want to avoid that sort of thing stop screwing with it

Err, my car did that up until I switched to the speed density setup. Possibly an altitude thing in my case?


EDIT: I didn't say everything else was all better though.... still have that extra richness after a warm start. Doesn't matter if the stock O2 sensor's connected or not. We'll save that for another thread though.

EDIT2: Could a bad THA sensor (skewed) cause the fueling to be off enough for the amount of time he's seeing?

 

[Zer0DeGreeZ]

Okay. Sorry it's been a minute since i've posted. Using a public computer here. lol.

Anyways this all only happens on cold starts. and only every once in a while.
Only when I have to hold the key do i then have the groggy issue, which a friend thinks that i'm getting too much, or too little fuel (too me, feels like flooding, but what do i know, lol).

I will more then likely take it to toyota then. but from what I've read that I actually understood, is that i may have need for new injectors as one or more may not be working properly or leaking. After that it would be wise to check all wiring that has to do with ignition and fuel systems to make sure everything is okay there? Correct?

 

[sneakypete]

if you have any reason to believe an injector is not working, then i wouldnt drive the car until you have to problem diagnosed by a professional if you cant do it on your own. you could cause serious damage to your motor if this is the case
-pete