Failed emissions. Was fantastic last year.

[Count Knobula]

So I failed pretty bad.

I'm hoping its related to what happened yesterday. Engine was misfiring pretty badly. Turned out water (LOADS) had got under the valve cover. I had a horrendous water later from the heater control valve hose (subsequently fixed).

Emissions tester guy said it may be that my injectors need to be cleaned. How do I do this?

Thanks

 

[cuel]

Fix the misfire, use Chevron gasoline. Ford has a pretty good carb./injector cleaner. Pour the can in a full tank, and run it out. Otherwise, Napa cleans and flow tests injectors, so you could pull them all, and take them in. Cost around $40 each, iirc. Call your local Napa for details.

 

[Count Knobula]

The misfire is fixed. Otherwise I wouldnt have driven the thing. I'll try some of that cleaner. I've never pulled SEEN an injector let alone pulled one.

 

[tlo86]

you can have them cleaned and flowtested for like 16$ an injector i think when you ship them off? they sit on the fuel rail under the throttle body

 

[jdub]

Fix the misfire, use Chevron gasoline. Ford has a pretty good carb./injector cleaner. Pour the can in a full tank, and run it out.

Not sure what's in the Ford product, but those containing Polyether Amine (PEA) are the most effective injector and valve deposit cleaners out there. It was invented by Chevron and is in their Techron product and their gasoline...don't use the Chevron ProGuard, it's a watered down version. PEA is also in RedLine SI-I and GumOut Regane (yellow liquid in a clear bottle). This stuff is the more expensive product on the shelf...the reason: it actually works vs the cheap solvent based cleaners.

I run a bottle of GumOut Regane through the motor every 5000 miles or so. Makes for a nice idle, but if you have idle issues, they will likely come back after you burn that tank

 

[Count Knobula]

NO was crazily high. EGR gives a check engine light but so does throttle position sensor and knock sensor.

I know the KS is new and if all those three were indeed not working the car wouldnt run, right?

The codes are cleared each time I turn off the car and only come back after a few minutes of driving, not straight away.

 

[jdub]

High NOx is caused by the EGR. Since you have a CA car (EGR code...low gas temps)...it's telling you there's a problem. Could be the valve, vac modulator, vsv, or your intake manifold channel is clogged up.

If you have a code 52, the problem could just as easily be in the KS wiring (this is common). With this code, the ECU pulls timing...not good for overall engine performance or emissions.

The TPS code...is it a 41 or a 51?

 

[Count Knobula]

cant remember.

disconnected EGR (vacuum lines) and car runs the same as when connected. this means EGR is not working, right?

EDIT: I believe it was 41

EDIT EDIT: Thing is, I'm sitting there out in the yard with the engine running, NO check engine light. Only happens after driving for a while or going out of my driveway (straight up a steep hill).

TRIPLE EDIT: I have a hose coming out of the big turbo hose that is disconnected. I dont remember it being that way. You know, the big rubber thing between the mass air and the turbo.

 

[jetjock]

You should post up the numbers so we can tell what's really going on but it does sound like an inoperative EGR.

I wouldn't buy into the injector cleaning thing just yet but it wouldn't hurt to take Jdub's advice. You can also clean them on the car. Much better than using in-tank stuff. You can throw a cleaner together for a few bux or buy one for around $100. Here's mine. That said I always test injectors first to see if they need cleaning but I'm guessing you don't have an injector pulser.

You're not going to get a MIL with some codes right away because certain parameters must be met. Time, speed, load, etc.

 

[jdub]

The EGR does not function at idle and above ~4000 RPM.

Code 41 is the TPS or it's wiring to the ECU....loss of the VTA signal from the TPS can cause some driveability issues, but usually not severe. I would believe it can cause *some* problems with emissions.

That hose will contribute, but is not the cause of your failure.

Please post the levels shown on your test...the ones for your car and the max allowable.

Edit: I'm with JJ...I'm not buying the injectors as the cause. BTW - JJ is very good with this sort of thing, but complete info will paint a better picture.

 

[jetjock]

Yeah, I know something about this stuff. I used to be BAR certified on it and that's an emissions analyzer in the picture, one of three I own. Put another way none of my cars ever fail

As for the TPS it can cause emissions problems depending on how it fails. For example if the ECU thinks it's near WOT (but still outside the signal range thats triggers Fail Safe) mixture will be rich at around 4% CO. I doubt that's his situation though since he's getting a code.

 

[jdub]

I doubt that's his situation though since he's getting a code.

That's what I was thinking concerning the TPS. Depending on the numbers, the EGR and KS code should have the biggest impact.

Jeez JJ, looks like you're in the running for the "guy who dies with the most toys wins" competition :biglaugh:

 

[Count Knobula]

25/25 test

Reading Allowed

HC PPM - 156 - 140 FAIL
CO% - 0.58 0.89 PASS
NOx PPM- 3564!!! - 984 FAIL TO THE MAX
RPM - 800 - 3000 max
CO+CO2% - 15.1 - 6.0 min

50/15 test

Reading Allowed

HCPPM - 85 - 144 PASS
CO% - 0.37 - 0.81 PASS
NOx PPM - 2034 - 1077 FAIL
RPM - 816 - 3000 max
CO+CO2% - 15.4 - 6 min

Someone told me you can remove the EGR and clean it out as it could be filled with gunk. I can get it out of that bracket, but the line going up into it is very secure.......

 

[jdub]

Yep...NOx is through the roof. The EGR has the biggest impact, but timing will too (the KS retard is not helping). Your valve either is not working or it's clogged up. Here's the TRSM info:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=EC&P=16

If the valve is clogged up with carbon, sometimes you can clean the valve out with brake cleaner and restore function. If it's bad, you will likely have to replace it. Make sue you test the VSV and the vac modulator. There's a path for the exhaust gas through the intake manifold...it starts where the EGR fitting attaches and goes to the center, below the TB flange. I've seen several of these completely blocked with carbon...if yours is, you will have to clean it out.

High HC is an indication of incomplete combustion...usually due to a rich condition. Yours is not that bad. Your CO2 numbers (wonder why it's CO + CO2) indicate a good burn. You may have an oil/fuel dilution issue...change your oil before you retest.

You still need to fix the code 52 and 41...I would do the KS rewire right away since this code affects timing. Shaeff sells a kit for those that are wiring impaired.

 

[Count Knobula]

OK I want to clean the valve out. How do I do that?

 

[jdub]

Do the easy stuff 1st...test the modulator and the VSV.

Removing the EGR is a royal PITA...I suggest removing the upper intake manifold to make it easier. You might as well clean the exhaust gas path I mentioned earlier while you are at it...a long drill bit the diameter of the "tube" (9/16" iirc) works well. Just make sure there are no loose pieces in the intake...you don't want chunks of carbon going inside your engine. Acetone is a good solvent too...soak the valve part (don't get it on the modulator) then test to see if the valve functions before you re-install. Brake cleaner will work too. You will need new gaskets...you only want to do this once

You can go ahead and test the VSV and modulator, but I would wait for JJ to chime in. Like I said, he's a lot better at this than me

 

[Count Knobula]

ah right, I need a vacuum guage. I'll have to get my friend (mechanic) in on it.

 

[jetjock]

I don't get it. They should have failed you on the MIL alone. I also missed you had a 52. Gotta fix that.

Jdub has it right. The engine is actually pretty clean. From the numbers I can see it's in fuel control with the O2 sensor working. You also have no exhaust leaks.

The NOx appears to be classic EGR failure. Run some PEA cleaner in the tank for the HC and test the EGR as per the TSRM. Start by connecting a piece of vacuum hose from the manifold directly to the EGR valve. The engine should stumble or die. If it doesn't you don't have vacuum getting to it or the passages are plugged. One way to clean head passages is to get a foot of wire rope or an old speedo cable and fray one end. Chuck the other end up in a drill and have at it. Soak the removable parts. You'll need to remove the EGR valve for that. Not fun, which is why you want to check everything else first.

John:CO+CO2 is a dilution number used by some states to check for cheating by feeding air into the exhaust. Also used to be sure the air pump (which did the same) from days of old is off during the test. Since he didn't report O2 that's how I know his exhaust is tight.

Toys? This from a guy with your garage?

 

[Count Knobula]

OK well the fluid is in there already so thats doin its job.

MIL is that maintenance inspection light? Like I said, it takes a fair while to come on.

Anyway, it looks like I have a direction to go in. Thanks

 

[jdub]

MIL = CEL

You're welcome