Went to the drag strip for the first time ever, put down some crappy times, advice?

[emiliorescigno]

I went to the track earlier today for my first time ever at a local "Sport Compact" event. Needless to say, I ran some really stupidly terrible times, so I come to you, Supramania, with questions.

To start, the car. My car is an '88 Turbo/Hardtop/Auto, it's almost completely stock, with the exception of an Intake and a full 3" turbo-back exhaust. Other modifications that might matter are a Mishimoto Radiator and a decently large transmission cooler. The car is full weight, with a spare tire, A/C, Jack, and factory sawblades, with some "eh" tires.

1st Pass: My very first drag race ever. I got confused by the lights on the tree, realized the yellows were coming down, frantically put the car into drive, and floored the gas. It was a lot of fun, and I ran a shit time:
Results:
2.798 60'
16.072 @ 89.26 mph

2nd Pass: Lined up against a Civic Hatch that ran an 11.8. I tried to brake-boost at the tree and ended up just spinning the tires, derp. Still did better, but still badly. The car felt flat-footed through the whole race. I did manage a 0.054 R/T though.
Results:
2.506 60'
15.865 @ 88.69 mph

3rd Pass: I had noticed the car seemed to be shifting really early (in my mind) the previous two races, so I tried turning the ECT into "normal" just for shits and giggles. I raced my friend's 370Z.
Results:
2.529 60'
16.067 @ 87.10

I went into my first time racing *knowing* that I would be the weakest link of the whole system, and that the biggest improvement to be had was more experience for myself. I really need to work on my launches, and my 60' times are awful.

BUT, through all three races, I felt as though the transmission was shifting far too early, and the next gear felt a little flat on power. The shifts seemed to be happening at the 5,250-5,500 range. In the end, I just feel like I was expecting more from the car despite my terrible 60' times.

The next drag racing event is August 8th, and I'm excited to tackle it with a little more know-how and hopefully get my times down. Thanks for any feedback!


edit: I had a lot of trouble building boost at the line without spinning my tires (at a standstill). I feel like my lack of grip had a lot to do with it, but what sort of strategies should I employ to actually get some boost off the line? The time restraints at the tree had my noobish self scrambling, and it shows in my times.

edit edit: Also worrying to me is the fact that my 60' improved .3 seconds from the 1st to 3rd pass, but my time was *exactly* the same.

 

[hvyman]

With a stock torque converter and auto your not going to build much boost off the line. It should spin the tires at 2-2400 rpm or so. A high stall will allow you to rev higher.

Practice and go as high as you can without spinning and stay there.

Also with the stock ct it falls flat on its face right around 5500 rpm. So the trans shifting then might not be so bad. Might be able to get a little more top end if it went higher tho.

Devin Leblanc has a section where he rebuilds valve body's. This may be something you want to look into if you plan on keeping the auto.

 

[90mkiiisupra400hp]

When you are at the line use the e-brake to brake boost. As soon as the last yellow light is one drop the e-brake and floor it. You still wont be able to build a lot of boost but I used to be able to get 4 or 5 psi which makes a huge difference.

Also if you really want to get into it unhook the front sway bars, that will help shift more weight to the back of the car so you can hook a little better. Before you do that at the track I would either try driving it on the road or in a big parking lot so you can get used to how the car handles with no sway bar.

Hope this helps, I am not a know it all when it comes to drag racing, but these are a couple tricks I picked up when I did it.

 

[Backlash2032]

Unhooking the sways wont do jack for shifting weight.. Think of it.. Both front wheels will extend at the same time...

 

[90mkiiisupra400hp]

Read this http://www.supramania.com/forums/sh...g-strip-success-w-pics.&highlight=drag+racing

Suspension set up:

Sway bar / End links:
I keep saying this but people aren’t listening. When at the track, disconnect the front sway bars. This goes back to the original concept that I talked about earlier. Transfer of weight to the rear of the vehicle. With the front sway bar disconnected it allows freer movement of the front suspension. Lets weight shift occur easier. Disconnecting the front sway bar is de facto standard in pretty much most auto enthusiast groups aside from the moron import crowd.

Don’t drive to the track with them disconnected though. That wont be fun. Also before you do this at the track, disconnect them once or twice and drive around your neighborhood to get a feel for what its like with them off. You don’t want to get squirrelly down the track your first time with them off. Know how it drives.

With adjustable end links it’s makes unattaching the front bar a breeze. Just disconnect the lower tie on the tie bar. It also allows you to adjust your rear sway bar to fine tune your launch. There are one or two places that sell them I think. Or you can just make your own. I made my own as seen below:

 

[Nick M]

Not true about weight shift occuring easier. Weight shift would happen if the car was traveling on solid beams. The same goes for suspension and handling with spring rates. The weight transfer still happens. But the suspension improvements allow the contact patches to remain intact. And besides, he is cutting a typical A340E 60 ft. Traction is not a problem yet.

Get a manual boost controller like the drjonez model. He sells them cheap. You will respond much quicker and can run it up to fuel cut of 11 psi or so on the stock system. If you are planning a build, this small mod might keep you satisfied in the interim. And you are not that far off of a stock time. Your car weighs about 3600 lbs without fuel or you in it. And it only had 230 bhp.

This assumes everything is in working order.

 

[emiliorescigno]

And besides, he is cutting a typical A340E 60 ft. Traction is not a problem yet.

And you are not that far off of a stock time. Your car weighs about 3600 lbs without fuel or you in it. And it only had 230 bhp.

I think this is what irks me most about my times. I am slightly slower than a stock time with a full exhaust, which I know makes a pretty dramatic difference over the restrictive stock system.

The car is in great condition, and the engine doesn't hesitate/miss/stumble or anything that is particularly obvious. The biggest concern for me was that the transmission seemed to shift so early that the bottom of the next gear felt low on power.

I guess I'm more surprised than anything at just how slow I ran even after the bad 60' times. My friend's Sentra SE-R with an Intake/Exhaust ran a 15.4 even - are Supras really that slow, or should I be hunting around for possible problems with my car?

 

[jdmfreak]

Thread saved

 

[NewGen]

When you are at the line use the e-brake to brake boost. As soon as the last yellow light is one drop the e-brake and floor it. You still wont be able to build a lot of boost but I used to be able to get 4 or 5 psi which makes a huge difference.

Also if you really want to get into it unhook the front sway bars, that will help shift more weight to the back of the car so you can hook a little better. Before you do that at the track I would either try driving it on the road or in a big parking lot so you can get used to how the car handles with no sway bar.

Hope this helps, I am not a know it all when it comes to drag racing, but these are a couple tricks I picked up when I did it.

I've heard this e brake trick works really well from a few members.

 

[te72]

I think this is what irks me most about my times. I am slightly slower than a stock time with a full exhaust, which I know makes a pretty dramatic difference over the restrictive stock system.

The car is in great condition, and the engine doesn't hesitate/miss/stumble or anything that is particularly obvious. The biggest concern for me was that the transmission seemed to shift so early that the bottom of the next gear felt low on power.

I guess I'm more surprised than anything at just how slow I ran even after the bad 60' times. My friend's Sentra SE-R with an Intake/Exhaust ran a 15.4 even - are Supras really that slow, or should I be hunting around for possible problems with my car?

2.506 60'
15.865 @ 88.69 mph

Not a terrible time for a more or less stock Mk3 at full weight without any specific mods for racing. The biggest restriction in the 7m's exhaust is the downpipe elbow, but if you get that fixed, good chance you'll be boosting a LOT more than you really want, and then it becomes an issue of fuel cut.

The shifting so soon does have me a bit puzzled. Do you have a thick floor mat under the pedal? Or is the throttle linkage overly loose? Those things might be keeping you from achieving WOT.

As for the Supra being so slow... well... yeah. They kinda are in stock form. Keep in mind however, that you're talking 80's technology (albeit high end 80's technology), and comparing it to more modern cars. Hell, a new Camry would eat a stock Mk3's lunch these days. Just how things are. Compare your car to an 80's Camry or Sentra though.

I've heard this e brake trick works really well from a few members.

Worth a shot, it would probably restrain the wheels a bit more, but... what will give if the tires don't? Will the transmission slip? Torque converter? Blow the tires off when he launches?

Automatics are a mystery to me for the most part...

 

[emiliorescigno]

Not a terrible time for a more or less stock Mk3 at full weight without any specific mods for racing. The biggest restriction in the 7m's exhaust is the downpipe elbow, but if you get that fixed, good chance you'll be boosting a LOT more than you really want, and then it becomes an issue of fuel cut.

The shifting so soon does have me a bit puzzled. Do you have a thick floor mat under the pedal? Or is the throttle linkage overly loose? Those things might be keeping you from achieving WOT.

To clarify, this car has a full exhaust from turbo back, including a SupraSport turbo elbow and an RT downpipe. Boost never seems to get past the top of the stock boost gauge.

After my first run, I had the same thought about the floor mats, and pulled the drivers' mat out for the second and third runs. I checked over the throttle linkages before I started the day and everything was nice and tight.

On the third run I ran with the ECT off, and it seemed to make a difference (slower). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that under WOT ECT/No ECT doesn't actually change the way the transmission performs, this may back up the "not actually reaching WOT" hypothesis thought process of earlier.

I do plan on looking over the car with a fine toothed comb to see if I have overlooked anything that I haven't mentioned yet. I also plan on attending more drag racing events to both improve my skills and work out any kinks with the vehicle, and I'll keep it posted.

edit: I do like the idea of using the e-brake to hold the car at the line and build a little more boost. I can definitely see that trick and a little experience really cutting down my times.

 

[NewGen]

To clarify, this car has a full exhaust from turbo back, including a SupraSport turbo elbow and an RT downpipe. Boost never seems to get past the top of the stock boost gauge.

After my first run, I had the same thought about the floor mats, and pulled the drivers' mat out for the second and third runs. I checked over the throttle linkages before I started the day and everything was nice and tight.

On the third run I ran with the ECT off, and it seemed to make a difference (slower). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that under WOT ECT/No ECT doesn't actually change the way the transmission performs, this may back up the "not actually reaching WOT" hypothesis thought process of earlier.

I do plan on looking over the car with a fine toothed comb to see if I have overlooked anything that I haven't mentioned yet. I also plan on attending more drag racing events to both improve my skills and work out any kinks with the vehicle, and I'll keep it posted.

edit: I do like the idea of using the e-brake to hold the car at the line and build a little more boost. I can definitely see that trick and a little experience really cutting down my times.

My dads auto 90t wont peg out the stock boost gauge either. It has cooleze downpipe/turbo elbow and hks sport exhaust. It ususally will boost to 7psi no boost controller. The rpm will climb to redline in his car though.

 

[mk3_7m]

Have you played around with your tyre pressures?

 

[Nick M]

The biggest concern for me was that the transmission seemed to shift so early that the bottom of the next gear felt low on power.

The computer for the trans learns shifting patterns and adjusts. It doesn't do it as well as newer stuff, but it still does it. Run it manually a few times. Meaning full throttle up to 5500 rpm, then shift to 2 and 3 yourself. It will not shift immediately, there is a delay. Your car has many years of ownership of driving softly. The trans knows that.

The ECT Power button changes the shift schedule at WOT, nothing more.

 

[Backlash2032]

Another thing with disconnecting the sways. Its pointless. Because the swaybar turning in its mounts is so much restriction to weight shift..

Sent from my HTC Rezound using Tapatalk

 

[IndigoMKII]

After my first run, I had the same thought about the floor mats, and pulled the drivers' mat out for the second and third runs. I checked over the throttle linkages before I started the day and everything was nice and tight.

Why don't you get someone to help you for a second, get in the car and floor it(With it off..) then get your friend to see if he can wiggle the throttle linkage I.E. open it more or try to close it.

 

[emiliorescigno]

My dads auto 90t wont peg out the stock boost gauge either. It has cooleze downpipe/turbo elbow and hks sport exhaust. It ususally will boost to 7psi no boost controller. The rpm will climb to redline in his car though.

Sounds like exactly the same car as mine, sans non-redline shifting.

Have you played around with your tyre pressures?

I haven't, I just have them set at 35 psi and haven't done any alteration.

The computer for the trans learns shifting patterns and adjusts. It doesn't do it as well as newer stuff, but it still does it. Run it manually a few times. Meaning full throttle up to 5500 rpm, then shift to 2 and 3 yourself. It will not shift immediately, there is a delay. Your car has many years of ownership of driving softly. The trans knows that.

The ECT Power button changes the shift schedule at WOT, nothing more.

Is there some way to "wipe" the memory of the computer? It seems like a totally backwards idea to limit a car's performance just because you commute with it most of the time.

Why don't you get someone to help you for a second, get in the car and floor it(With it off..) then get your friend to see if he can wiggle the throttle linkage I.E. open it more or try to close it.

This is exactly what I did when I adjusted my throttle linkage before leaving for the track.



I think I will be looking over the car a little bit tonight and making sure my TPS is properly adjusted according to the TSRM. I'm also going to do a tune up on the car of sorts (Oil Change, Transmission Fluid Change, Spark Plugs, Clean Air Filter) and see if it helps the car's performance noticeably. If not, it's maintenance that I'm sure is good to stay on top of anyway.

 

[toyotanos]

Are you understanding why I had made the suggestions I had made now?

We'll get ya squared away sure enough Emilio. I'm sure we can get Blue Supra into the 14's fo sho!

 

[te72]

The computer for the trans learns shifting patterns and adjusts. It doesn't do it as well as newer stuff, but it still does it. Run it manually a few times. Meaning full throttle up to 5500 rpm, then shift to 2 and 3 yourself. It will not shift immediately, there is a delay. Your car has many years of ownership of driving softly. The trans knows that.

The ECT Power button changes the shift schedule at WOT, nothing more.

I remember doing this with my 88 (NA auto) a couple times, just to see if I could get it to rev a little higher. This delay you speak of, allowed it to run to 7k before going into 2nd, for some weird as shit reason, yet any other 7m I've ever driven on stock electronics would kill the fun around 6700. Is there any way to "reset" the transmission's "brain"?

As for the ECT, I seemed to get better mileage out of it with it turned ON, and the car would hold the gear a bit longer with it on (at partial throttle levels), as opposed to shifting as soon as possible.

I can't really explain the technical reasons behind my experiences, just note my observations.

Why don't you get someone to help you for a second, get in the car and floor it(With it off..) then get your friend to see if he can wiggle the throttle linkage I.E. open it more or try to close it.

I like this suggestion, certainly one way of affirming the WOT theory.


To the OP, I find it rather odd that you're unable to hit more than the 8psi on the stock gauge if you have a turbo back 3" exhaust. I had a 3" downpipe back (stock DP at the time) on my 7m, with the Cooleze hard pipes, and an Apexi intake. Otherwise, engine was all stock, and I was hitting around 10-12psi easily.

When I switched out the downpipe for the BIC ddp, I had trouble keeping it from hitting fuel cut. Now, this was at 2000' elevation. When I moved up here to Wyoming, the same setup netted around 10-11psi at most.

For what it is worth, the stock boost gauge *is* accurate (checked against a mechanical gauge), but it is a bit slow to respond.

Edit: Saw your post about the air filter Emilio... that could be a culprit for sure. With my 1j, I hadn't cleaned off the air filter in probably 2 years now, recently did that, and wow! Makes a bit of a difference in spool times.

 

[NewGen]

Are you understanding why I had made the suggestions I had made now?

We'll get ya squared away sure enough Emilio. I'm sure we can get Blue Supra into the 14's fo sho!

Agreed! It always takes a trip or two at the track to get everything squared away you'll get there!