i agree, it seems too thick 104 cst @ 40c and even 18 cst at 100c.:aigo: but i am curious j dub what how bad do you think it would be if i ran someething like the mobile clean 5000 5w-20 low as 47.8 cst but also 8.5 cst at 100c. compared to something as thick as the enoes 0w-50 or maybe not even that thick. so i gues im wondering if its ok to run something that thin on a 7m or 1jz
Using A 0W-20?
- Thread starter supramike7m
- Start date
You can run a 0W-20 no problem...JJ has been doing so in his 7M for at least 6 months now. Several guys on the oil forum are running it in V8's and V10 Fords. The only caveat is the temperature extremes we experience here in AZ during the summer...it gets blazing hot outside and that is hard on an oil. Plus, keep in mind the 7M (as well as most motors) were designed to run an oil at ~10cst at ops temp. A 0W-20 will flow very well .
Mobil 1 Clean 5000 is a very good oil, but if I were going to run a Group III oil, I would use Pennzoil Platinum (or Red Line 5W-20 if you want a true synthetic)...I would do an oil analysis at 2000 miles and repeat at 4000 miles to confirm the oil is doing what it should. Watch for fuel dilution in the analysis on an oil this thin...you *may* notice a slight increase in oil consumption and/or increase in valve train noise too. You should show an improvement in gas mileage
Personally, I'm going to stick with the 30W multigrades this era Toyota motors were spec'ed for.
Mobil 1 Clean 5000 is a very good oil, but if I were going to run a Group III oil, I would use Pennzoil Platinum (or Red Line 5W-20 if you want a true synthetic)...I would do an oil analysis at 2000 miles and repeat at 4000 miles to confirm the oil is doing what it should. Watch for fuel dilution in the analysis on an oil this thin...you *may* notice a slight increase in oil consumption and/or increase in valve train noise too. You should show an improvement in gas mileage
Personally, I'm going to stick with the 30W multigrades this era Toyota motors were spec'ed for.
I've been running RL 5W-20 for the better part of a year now as well. Only thing I can say is that OP seems to drop notably once you push it past 105C. Consumption did increase a small amount.
On the most recent trip to the USGP with this oil I got astonishing gas mileage.
On the most recent trip to the USGP with this oil I got astonishing gas mileage.
im with pennzoil platinum 5w-30. probably gonna go with amsoil series 2000 0w-30 or redline 5w-20 for the next change. the amsoil is a little thinner at both 40 and 100 c. what do you know of the amsoil series 2000 jdub? red line does seem a little too thin at 100c. and not much thinner than the amsoil at 40c. what your opinion on amsoil series 2000?
Here's what I see for viscosity on the oils in question...I added a couple for comparison:
Mobil Clean 5000 5W-30
KV @ 40 deg C = 62.2 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 10.6, VI = 161
Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20
KV @ 40 deg C = 57.8 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 8.5, VI = 156
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30
KV @ 40 deg C = 57.5 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 10.3, VI = 169
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20
KV @ 40 deg C = 46.84 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 8.48, VI = 160
(The Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 is very close viscosity wise...the VI is 175)
Amsoil Signature Series 0W-30 (the Series 2000 oil is discontinued...this is it's replacement)
KV @ 40 deg C = 56.56 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 10.3, VI = 173
(The Series 2000 oil is almost identical)
Amsoil ASM 0W-20
KV @ 40 deg C = 49.1 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 9.0, VI = 163
Red Line 5W-30
KV @ 40 deg C = 62.0 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 10.6, VI = 162
Red Line 5W-20
KV @ 40 deg C = 55.0 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 9.1, VI = 145
Per Mobil's FAQ:
My point is all of the above are excellent oils...all have stout add packs...all will provide (or exceed) the requirements of your engine...all have cold viscosity spec's that are very close to each other. The major difference is the viscosity at ops temp...all of the 30W oils are 10+ cst; all of the 20W oils are at 9.1 cst or less. It gets to a point where you can over think this and start splitting hairs
I'll usually steer someone to the 0W or 5W-30 oils for a stock/moderately modified 7M, 1JZ, or 2JZ motors...they were designed for the viscosities these oils have at ops temp. There is a big difference in viscosity when you go to the 40W or 50W multigrade oils at ops temp...especially when cold...these oils reduce flow to the bearings. However, when you start talking about differences between 20W and 30W multigrades, the differences in hot/cold viscosities is a lot smaller (percentage wise)...both grades will flow plenty good enough to keep the bearings happy. The biggest advantage in the 20W oils is you will see an improvement in gas mileage.
Like I said, the 20W oils may increase consumption and/or valve train noise...it is going to depend on the individual engine. Like MkIIIman said, the 20W oils my also give you a lower pressure when hot...not that it means the oil is not doing its job at design temperatures, but does illustrate the effect heat has on viscosity at temperatures above 100 deg C. Viscosity drops pretty quickly above 100 deg C...the 20W oils are already below engine design viscosity at 100 deg C. IMO, you will need a very good cooler circuit (definite upgrade from stock...full flow, thermostat controlled) to prevent excessive viscosity drop. An oil temp gauge would also be an excellent idea. This especially applies to where we live, OAT wise
All you can do is try a oil and see what happens when you are looking at this class oils. I tried the Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 and did experience increased valve noise...that is why I switched to GC. It is thicker at ops temp, but still flows very well cold...it cut the noise I was hearing in the cockpit by half.
I'm curious, why do you want to switch from Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30?
Mobil Clean 5000 5W-30
KV @ 40 deg C = 62.2 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 10.6, VI = 161
Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20
KV @ 40 deg C = 57.8 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 8.5, VI = 156
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30
KV @ 40 deg C = 57.5 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 10.3, VI = 169
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20
KV @ 40 deg C = 46.84 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 8.48, VI = 160
(The Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 is very close viscosity wise...the VI is 175)
Amsoil Signature Series 0W-30 (the Series 2000 oil is discontinued...this is it's replacement)
KV @ 40 deg C = 56.56 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 10.3, VI = 173
(The Series 2000 oil is almost identical)
Amsoil ASM 0W-20
KV @ 40 deg C = 49.1 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 9.0, VI = 163
Red Line 5W-30
KV @ 40 deg C = 62.0 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 10.6, VI = 162
Red Line 5W-20
KV @ 40 deg C = 55.0 cst, KV @ 100 deg C = 9.1, VI = 145
Per Mobil's FAQ:
That means Mobil Clean 5000 is a Grp III base stock. Pennzoil Platinum is also a Grp III oil...it's extensively hydrocracked, to the point where it is virtually indistinguishable from a Grp IV...superior to Mobil Grp III base stocks IMO. Amsoil is a Grp IV PAO with ester adds. Red Line is a Grp V ester base...the best available. Note the Red Line oils have a VI that is lower for the respective weighs...the ester base stock is the reason. Ester requires less viscosity improvers to maintain the grade range...that means more lubricant by volume in a bottle.
My point is all of the above are excellent oils...all have stout add packs...all will provide (or exceed) the requirements of your engine...all have cold viscosity spec's that are very close to each other. The major difference is the viscosity at ops temp...all of the 30W oils are 10+ cst; all of the 20W oils are at 9.1 cst or less. It gets to a point where you can over think this and start splitting hairs
I'll usually steer someone to the 0W or 5W-30 oils for a stock/moderately modified 7M, 1JZ, or 2JZ motors...they were designed for the viscosities these oils have at ops temp. There is a big difference in viscosity when you go to the 40W or 50W multigrade oils at ops temp...especially when cold...these oils reduce flow to the bearings. However, when you start talking about differences between 20W and 30W multigrades, the differences in hot/cold viscosities is a lot smaller (percentage wise)...both grades will flow plenty good enough to keep the bearings happy. The biggest advantage in the 20W oils is you will see an improvement in gas mileage.
Like I said, the 20W oils may increase consumption and/or valve train noise...it is going to depend on the individual engine. Like MkIIIman said, the 20W oils my also give you a lower pressure when hot...not that it means the oil is not doing its job at design temperatures, but does illustrate the effect heat has on viscosity at temperatures above 100 deg C. Viscosity drops pretty quickly above 100 deg C...the 20W oils are already below engine design viscosity at 100 deg C. IMO, you will need a very good cooler circuit (definite upgrade from stock...full flow, thermostat controlled) to prevent excessive viscosity drop. An oil temp gauge would also be an excellent idea. This especially applies to where we live, OAT wise
All you can do is try a oil and see what happens when you are looking at this class oils. I tried the Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 and did experience increased valve noise...that is why I switched to GC. It is thicker at ops temp, but still flows very well cold...it cut the noise I was hearing in the cockpit by half.
I'm curious, why do you want to switch from Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30?
jdub said:
no problems with the platinum 5w-30 and i know there is not much of a difference @40 deg C. i would just like to try out a pao based oil tue syn. any advantage you can think of being both are so close in both 40 and 100 deg cst? what will be the advantage of the pao and ester in this oil? condition seals?
Not a big advantage for the Amsoil...Pennzoil has narrowed the difference down between Grp III and PAO to the point it really does not matter. The only thing I can come up with is PAO will take heat a bit better...might be helpful here in AZ. Having said that, I prefer a "true syn" oil for service in a turbo car
You nailed it...Amsoil uses ester as a seal conditioner.
You nailed it...Amsoil uses ester as a seal conditioner.
Thanks jdub for those viscosity comparisons. I'm running RL 5w30 in my 7M with a stock oil cooler. I see a slight decrease in pressure when I assume oil temps are about 100C degrees. You mentioned an oil temp gauge which I was going to install on my 7M, but haven't found a good spot for one. I usually install oil temp gauges on the oil filter housing but there are no plugs on a 7M filter housing. I found a couple near the oil return for the turbo but I don't think I would get an accurate reading. I also thought of T'ing the stock oil pressure sender hole and rigging up both oil temp and pressure from that one output.
Where did you put your oil temp gauge on a 7M?
Where did you put your oil temp gauge on a 7M?
Frank - I used a T-fitting on the feed to the remote filter head/cooler...I'm using stainless braided line and AN fittings. The temps shown are those after the oil has traveled through the motor. It basically shows max oil temp as a result. I'm thinking about adding another sensor post cooler to see how well it does it's job, but have not got around to it.