Upgraded (almost).. wondering what to expect....

[Grandavi]

Gonna do the elbow but waitng on injector upgrade. Spending too much $$ as it is, the injectors will wait until after Xmas
Will just hold off on the AFM as well and do it all at once with an intercooler.
Had I not gone this far I probably would have been better off dumping a 2j vvti setup in it.

Still an option but hopefully the 7m gives me 3-5 years of good running first

 

[Turbo Habanero]

Um if you want that 7m to last get a wideband.

 

[Grandavi]

Do I need to go wideband for a simple street setup? I wont be running 1/4 miles with it on a track, solely driving on highway and around town during summers.
If I do have to go wideband and I get the elbow with just the O2 sensor bung, it should be easy enough to add the second bung for the wideband I think (or am I wrong?).

Is the wideband mostly to manage the engine and prevent detonation? or is it just an overall management issue because the ECU isn't designed to handle the modifications?
(sorry for the newbie questions, but I have never owned a "tuner" nor have I ever upgraded a car as far as I am taking this... usually just let the manufacturers set it up and I just drive... all new ground for me)

 

[te72]

Grandavi, the wideband is a device to monitor your air:fuel ratio. Definitely useful if you're using a piggyback or standalone to tune the car, or have someone tune it. I have one in my car, was a preventative measure for me, as I just wanted to make sure that my car wasn't going to run lean at higher boost pressures. She's fine all the way up to fuel cut for me, so that was the extent of how much I really "used" the wideband. Adding a bung should be easy enough for an exhaust shop, just make sure to get a bolt or something to plug it with until you put in the additional sensor.

As for the stock intercooler, a buddy of ours here still has the stock one on his car, and his engine is FAR from being stock as far as boost/fuel upgrades go. It works well enough... for one pull.

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

If you're going to leave the stock ECU alone, even with a Lex/550 setup, then you should be fine without a wideband. As soon as you start messing with A/F ratios, even with something as simple as an AFPR, it's a good idea.

I didn't get one for my 7M with the Lexus/550 setup, and I don't think that it was ever a problem. If anything the TCCS wants it to run very rich under boost/WOT, and I believe that it was.

For my current build, I'm getting the Zeitronix Zt-2 unit, which doesn't need me to retain the stock O2 sensor, since it has a simulated output for it. As such, I'm getting the adapter flange which will allow me to use the stock location for the wideband sensor. Once in place, I'll use the simulated narrowband output to feed to the TCCS, so I don't need to drill/tap for 2 O2 sensors. (Though if it comes to it, I have an 18X1.5mm tap, so I could do it myself, if I wanted to.)

I'm doing this because I also bought Mike's APEXi Neo, so I will be able to do some tuning to get some more power from the 7M, and I don't want to waste all the money/work that I'm putting into my 7M. I wouldn't have if I weren't planning on additional tuning options.

You could get a wideband gauge only, but IMO, that's largely going to be to have dials and blinky lights. It's only in combination with a data logger that a wideband is truely useful. Same with EGT (though peak/hold EGT will tell you what really matters.) You want to know what's happening in your engine at various loads/RPM ranges, and you only get the whole picture with a data logger.

 

[Turbo Habanero]

Wideband is a cheap upgrade for a lot of peace of kind it helps diagnose problems and helps you prevent problems every car is different and problems will occure a wideband will help fix it...


In my opinion everyone should have one and its dumb not too have one on a turbo sports car that is been changed in any way from stock..

How do you know that when your car is at higher boost and leaning out up top because your fuel pump is not working right? Or theres a mild boost leak? Or something is wrong with the injectors ? Maybe the ecu is messing up or the 02 is bad or you poped a vac line..

Paying attention to a wideband can save your car and your wallet

 

[Grandavi]

Any recommendations on the wideband?
I have read about piggyback engine management, wideband and stand alone systems. From what I read if your going to go for precise tuning, you want stand alone. Im not building a track car, so I dont want the laptop experience, just a nice solid "never fail" street car.
Definitely not going injectors quite yet. After looking at the cost, I think I will just pick up the parts and prep for the rest of the year and then go full out next year (after summer end again). I think with the 57 trim, 3" exhaust, HKS 3000 pipe replacement, 3" unrestricted turbo elbow and boost controller my car will be staged really nice for the next upgrades (550 cc injectors, etc.). When does the AFM become irrelevant, or is it always needed regardless of management system used on a 7M?

 

[IndigoMKII]

Any recommendations on the wideband?
I have read about piggyback engine management, wideband and stand alone systems. From what I read if your going to go for precise tuning, you want stand alone. Im not building a track car, so I dont want the laptop experience, just a nice solid "never fail" street car.
Definitely not going injectors quite yet. After looking at the cost, I think I will just pick up the parts and prep for the rest of the year and then go full out next year (after summer end again). I think with the 57 trim, 3" exhaust, HKS 3000 pipe replacement, 3" unrestricted turbo elbow and boost controller my car will be staged really nice for the next upgrades (550 cc injectors, etc.). When does the AFM become irrelevant, or is it always needed regardless of management system used on a 7M?

The AFM can be 'deleted' per say if you use a MAFT or a standalone, some will suggest deleting it as for 'ease of tuning' but some will say keep it seeing as the AFM is more accurate.

 

[Turbo Habanero]

AEM Uego is the wideband i have its $170 shipped on ebay most of the time

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

EFI needs an airflow measure, so you need an AFM unless you go MAP. The KV AFM is a decent one at most power levels, so it's good. AFM is more accurate, unless you have boost or vacuum leaks, too.

Now I'll just wait for the "I hit FCO" thread.

 

[Grandavi]

Lol, I know fco from my 87 I bought off of mark lihn.
Shimmed wastegate does that. Pretty sure the max boost I will get without it will be 11 psi.
I have a Lipp AFM that I can xfer my electronics into (have had for 2 years now).
Thinking I will hunt for a wideband system to go along with my injectors. Got quoted 8 hours for injector install... Thought that was pretty steep timewise for a good mechanic.

 

[MNBmk3T]

I drove a stock 7M car at 12psi and then I drove my 7M car (now 1JZ) that had a 3" Turbo-back (with a true 3" elbow built into my custom DP) and it was quite a noticeable difference. As far as wideband goes, I have an AEM UEGO Wideband. Does the job really well and looks pretty good at night; I have it mounted on top of the dash right by the pillar so getting an eye on it is easy when boosting around.

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

If you get 11 PSI out of that 57 trim, it'll be a miracle. 11 PSI is pretty safe with the stock CT26, but there's more airflow with the upgraded turbo, even at the same manifold pressure.

 

[Grandavi]

So.. with the boost controller, running stock injectors, stock intercooler, stock AFM... 11 PSI is not doable with a CT 26 57 trim? Not sure what to make out of that statement.
Taken into account the intake is all stock, the exhaust is 3" (turbo back), and I believe the turbo uses an internal wastegate, I thought it would naturally fall (without any real tampering) around the 9-11 psi mark. With a boost controller, I thought I would be able to step that up a wee bit.
Ignoring fuel cut... am I misunderstanding how this works?

I was also assuming that I would be somewhere around 345 rwhp at that point as well. (I dont think I can get to 400+ rwhp without the injectors, afm, afpr, wideband and intercooler without risking my engine.. if it is even possible...)

Also.. looked at the AEM UEGO Wideband and its pretty affordable, but I fail to see what its purpose is (yeah.. Im very new to this part). It seems to monitor your air/fuel mixture to tell you if your running rich or lean and monitors your exhaust temperature (this is from looking at it on Youtube). I dont see how it controls anything though and if you dont understand what the numbers mean.. well... lol.

I am such a noob to this stuff...

and.. after a little reading, I believe its more useful if your running a AFPR, but overall, its most useful as a monitor as long as you have the capability of tuning your car to ensure it doesnt lean out at WOT... I think...

and.. after even more reading.. I think the wideband monitor is very important simply to see (once you understand the numbers) that you are not leaning out and your exhaust gas temps arent climbing too high. So.. its not simply a case of having a wideband.. its also understanding what the numbers mean and what your limits are. Past that.. it is how to deal with the low or high numbers. (basically... the wideband will save my engine by telling me something is happening that shouldn't be). Its not really changing anything in the tune, its more of a monitor.

Am i getting this right?

and finally.. it looks like the absolute best path is to go to stand alone... however.. I understand that less.. (at present).
Not sure if I need to go that far with a simple 550 cc injector (just bought these.. but not installing), Lexus AFM (have this, not installing yet), CT26 57 trim setup. Thats not really extreme.. dont plan on running 20 psi+

 

[MNBmk3T]

A wideband tells you your Air/Fuel ratios. If there isn't enough fuel going into the engine (aka AFRs reading 13.0 or more at WOT) then your engine will begin to detonate aka eventually blow up. If your AFRs are reading say 10.2 at WOT then there is too much fuel going into your engine and it is not producing peak power. A wideband can tell you a lot of how your engine is doing and operating. EGTs are a completely different thing.

A standalone is the best path to go simply because anything that your ECU controls (which is essentially everything like injector pulse, timing, boost control, etc.) can be tuned and adjusted to how your particular engine/car likes and where it will operate at peak performance/power. Basically when you upgrade from stock, your stock ECU does not like it very much; therefore to accommodate these upgrades a standalone ECU is best. Also, if you want to do more upgrades down the road, all you have to do is get your ECU tuned for that particular upgrade (say you upgraded the turbo) and you're set. Most aftermarket ECUs, like Haltech for example, can even be tuned so that the Progressive Power Steering that came with our cars can and will work.

 

[Turbo Habanero]

If you get 11 PSI out of that 57 trim, it'll be a miracle. 11 PSI is pretty safe with the stock CT26, but there's more airflow with the upgraded turbo, even at the same manifold pressure.

But he won't know if its safe without a wideband!!!

 

[Grandavi]

Okay, I understand most if this now in theory from reading. The wideband will generally save my car if something is wrong simply by allowing me to see it. However, it won't do anything other then tell me whatsoever happening (hence, it's not that expensuve). More of a telltale gauge, but very accurate.
What I really need on top of that will be a AFPR and stand alone management system to allow me to tune for the upgrades.

In the end though, if my injectors and electronics are all doing their jobs correctly, I don't teuly need anything for this stage.

I will have a 57 trim + 3" turbo back exhaust setup on this week. Fuel cut will save my engine if anything goes a bit wonky. The wideband won't be required until I up the injectors and add on the Lexus AFM, then I will want to know that nothing is going wrong because my mods at that point have the potential of damaging the engine. I should add in an AFPR at that point as well (already upgraded the fuel pump) although I can make adjustments as well with the LIPP AFM SCrew. Without the wideband I won't know the true results, so it's kind of a must have.

I have far too much $ in this car to risk on a thrill

Now if I go stand alone do I need the wideband? Because if I am going standalone... It should give me all that info I believe (just don't want to buy it if its obsolete at a later stage.)

 

[radiod]

Going standalone I would say the wideband is a requirement, not an option. I can't think of a standalone that won't take a wideband input and you will need the wideband to tune.

 

[Dan_Gyoba]

As I read it, the current plan is to install the 57 trim turbo, while running stock injectors, stock AFM, stock TCCS.

A wideband might TELL you that something isn't right, but chances are very slim that there will be anything dangerous while running that setup. We all know that the TCCS likes to go rich.

Even on the Lexus AFM and 550cc injectors, the likelihood of anything going dangerously lean is very slim.

In that case, too, the wideband might tell you that things aren't optimal, but there isn't a thing that you can actually do about it anyway.

Going standalone, I agree. It should be done as a part of things. I suppose that if you have a really good tuner, who will use a wideband to tune the standalone, and you're going to leave the tuner's work alone, then you might get away with it, but even then, for the small additional cost, it's more than worthwhile.

As I said, I'm getting a wideband, since I'm now adding a piggyback, and will now be able to DO something about my AFRs, and I plan to do something about them in order to more appropriately tune my car.

 

[Smashey]

yup, I'm with Dan on this one.