Tuning SAFC

[spainobain1234]

7MGTE Gt35 Turbo 550cc Inj Lexus AFM SAFC Walbro 255L Fuel Pump AFPR 550CC RC ENG INJ External WAstegate HKS SSQV BOV Wideband o2 EUGO gauge HKS MEtal HG ARP HEad Studs Built Block ETC.

This is my first Supra, I had to learn everything about my supra the hard way from the ground up, never was a mechanic until now. I just do not understand the tuning and computer aspect of it all!
Safc: Tuning

I need to know step by step exactly how to tune (without a plug in adapter) my computer with the SAFC piggyback installed. It should be simple with lex AFM and 550cc inj's right? No shops in Pacific Northwest are willing to tune my car unless I go standalone. I just want to try to tune with an SAFC.

I need a step by step instruction list on how to tune with the SAFC on with a AEM Eugo Wideband.
I raise the % and the uego gauge tells me I am at 12 A/F Ratio at 1000 rpms, but 5 minutes later without changing any values, the car is running a 10+ A/F Ratio and blowing black smoke out the tail pipe! Running way too Rich all the sudden! so I tweak the % on the SAFC again, and now the car seems to be at a perfect 12 A/F Ratio again but the entire tune has to be redone again! I am so confused. What am I doing wrong?
Anybody selling a standalone Vipec 44 or 88 ECU? AEM ECU for sale? Thank you in advance.

 

[jetjock]

Why would you think 12 afr @ 1000 rpm is perfect? Are you familiar with the term "closed loop"?

 

[Trent]

1. You need a way to log your wideband results. There is no way to tune without being able to log it. In other words, the AEM gauge won't work unless you've got a way to log it.

2. You need to learn the difference between open and closed loop. This is a VERY vital thing to know and understand, especially with these cars.

3. Even with all that, I would find somewhere still willing to do it for you. There are a lot of factors and no one can really give you the step by step you are looking for. There are just things you learn as you tune cars and understand how they behave that make you able to fix those issues and overcome those various obstacles as they arise.

4. I would never tune a car myself if I didn't have someone with me who was very versed in how to do it. I had Justin Nenni tune my first Supra a number of times with different setups and am confident in what I need to do when the time comes and will just rent the dyno time and do it myself. I in no way would attempt it without help from someone else who can be there who knows these cars.

 

[IJ.]

:opcorn::

 

[spainobain1234]

1. You need a way to log your wideband results. There is no way to tune without being able to log it. In other words, the AEM gauge won't work unless you've got a way to log it.

2. You need to learn the difference between open and closed loop. This is a VERY vital thing to know and understand, especially with these cars.

3. Even with all that, I would find somewhere still willing to do it for you. There are a lot of factors and no one can really give you the step by step you are looking for. There are just things you learn as you tune cars and understand how they behave that make you able to fix those issues and overcome those various obstacles as they arise.

4. I would never tune a car myself if I didn't have someone with me who was very versed in how to do it. I had Justin Nenni tune my first Supra a number of times with different setups and am confident in what I need to do when the time comes and will just rent the dyno time and do it myself. I in no way would attempt it without help from someone else who can be there who knows these cars.

:opcorn::

Thank you and I understand this must be entertaining.
So it is a matter of tuning around what the computer learned and all the history stored from learning versus the real time recognition of o2 sensor readings which defined open and closed loop? And which is which?
How embarrassing I am so new and eager to learn. Can someone just meet me in Washington and help me! Nobody here knows how to do this surprisingly in the Northwest, even with a craigslist ad seeking SAFC tuning help...

How do I datalog? with the SAFC?

 

[Nick M]

http://www.autoshop101.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Computerized-...&sr=1-2&keywords=computerized+engine+controls

 

[Trent]

I don't know about anyone else, but it is certainly not entertaining for me. I don't want to see someone make a mistake and screw up a car because they didn't know how to tune it or how something works.

Again, you just are going to need to find someone that knows how to do it. Based on what you have said so far and questions you are asking, I would highly advise against you tuning it yourself. If you aren't even sure how to datalog something, then I really would not go any further with trying to tune a car.

A couple of points though.

1. AFC stands for Air Flow Converter. What it does is simply just that. It takes the airflow the car is really seeing and intercepts that signal to tell the computers ECU what you want it to see. In our case, you want it to see less air so that it will put in less fuel because w/ 550's, Walbro, AFPR, etc you have way too much fuel and want to reduce what the computer tells the motor to put in. That is ALL the AFC does is intercept that signal and change what the ECU sees.

2. In order to make changes to that signal and make those adjustments, you have to have someway of knowing what your A/F ratio is. You also need to know what A/F ratio is ideal and what you want to run to ensure reliability and good performance at the same time. the AEM only shows that instantaneously and you can't possibly know what the A/F ratio was at a given RPM to make an adjustment to the AFC when you are driving. So you have to have a way to log at the VERY minimum, the A/F ratio and the RPM level at that given A/F ratio. It is beneficial of course to have more than that to monitor and log, but at the very least you need that.

3. Then from there you can view those logs and make SMALL adjustments at a time until you can get to a more ideal A/F ratio throughout the RPM range you are tuning in.

That is just a VERY basic idea of what is involved and I haven't even scratched the surface of what all tuners will look at or rely on to tune your car. Experience and knowledge of it is what you are paying for more than anything and again, while the concept of tuning the car may appear to be not so difficult, it is not at all something easy for someone who has never done it before.

 

[jetjock]

^ You might want to peruse the guy's post history.

OP: Can't tune a broken car. Remove the SAFC or set it to zero and fix what's wrong first.

 

[Van]

Hey "Spain,
If your Supra is otherwise drivable or, even if it isn't, take it to VIP Performance in Portland; Wryann is more than capable of tuning your car as he has mine. Wryann is well versed in our TCCS and has knowledge of Vf as it applies to our ECUs.
He tuned my Supra that has an AFC Neo, using a wide band, data logging on the Dyno and on the street, and managed 268/278 at the wheels out of the motor, on a safe tune. He only tunes above 4K RPM using the AFC to avoid running afoul of the TCCS's programming.
When U want to have him work on it, call him at 503-257-1110.
In the meantime, U may want to brush up on our TCCS. Here is a good article on Vf as it applies to our ECUs...View attachment One thing that will really mess you up is Vf.doc

 

[mrmk3supra_wrx]

hey man im in the same boat im learning to tune this thiing .. but what do you guys use to datalog then since using a wideband only isnt ideal?

 

[spainobain1234]

Hey "Spain,
If your Supra is otherwise drivable or, even if it isn't, take it to VIP Performance in Portland; Wryann is more than capable of tuning your car as he has mine. Wryann is well versed in our TCCS and has knowledge of Vf as it applies to our ECUs.
He tuned my Supra that has an AFC Neo, using a wide band, data logging on the Dyno and on the street, and managed 268/278 at the wheels out of the motor, on a safe tune. He only tunes above 4K RPM using the AFC to avoid running afoul of the TCCS's programming.
When U want to have him work on it, call him at 503-257-1110.
In the meantime, U may want to brush up on our TCCS. Here is a good article on Vf as it applies to our ECUs...View attachment 67748

Thank you for all your help guys.

Van,

Awesome advice. This is exactly what I am looking for is somebody who knows my setup and you are the first to recommend me to the guy who knows my setup very well. That is exactly what is causing my codes is the Vf and the ECU and I have been so confused because I could not find one person to explain these to me.

The Gt35r Turbo is pushing so much boost that the ECU is going to have to recognize the tweaked vf readings rather than the original vf readings which is where the symptoms exist. The ECU is freaking out.

BTW...
I am probably going standalone now with AEM v2, or Vipec v88 with work being performed by ILLTECH in Bellevue Wa or Doug in University Place, WA.
I cannot stand the clutter from this Lexus AFM and all the vacuum lines need to be cleaned up anyways :/

p.s. JJ, SAFC is plugged into my stock ECU as a piggyback, therefore causing the ECU codes to be thrown since the SAFC is not being utilized a.k.a. tuned correctly at the moment. I am considering a standalone since there are few mechanics that specialize in this similar setup / route I have chosen...
18PSI on a stock ECU with a GT35R turbo. It all has to do with tricking the stock ECU since the ECU is freaking out because of my setup. I was looking for a response from somebody with a similar upgrade setup like my own.

 

[supramad77]

Have the same set up as you with similar tuning problems. Car runs bad at full boost and no one local to me wants to play with the safcii. Very frustrating. Been advised to fit a emanage ultimate. I have a t4 turbo to fix next.