Thoughts on WTA intercooler setup...well on my setup for daily driving and racing

[jonahs_supra]

so i have been playing around with the fact of a WTA intercooler setup
but all the WTA intercoolers i find are boxed in units and would not be good for daily driving(unless your ok with filling your ice box with ice everyday)
on to my car setup:
91 turbo supra...80k miles
automatic
maft pro(speed density)
walbro 255
aeromotive a1000 afpr
godspeed fmic
2.5 hard pipes
3in downpipe
2.5in straight pipe exhaust
ct26 til i pick up my lipp boss 61mm turbo on sunday

ok so now back to how i would like to setup a WTA intercooler
i want to keep it a simple setup that will work with or without having to add ice so i wont have 150+ degree intake temps just cruising to work
my thought is:
relocat p/s resevior by abs pump for added clearance
heres the WTA cooler im looking to buy soon
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...d=214&osCsid=163f4edd79bfa1d4d36d531d36083502
this will go in place of where stock air filter box with go
so cold charge pipe coming from fmic will run into WTA cooler and other side will continue to travel to throttle body just like stock setup
this will be my front mount heat exchanger to help cool WTA water down after leaving WTA cooler
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...=1063&osCsid=163f4edd79bfa1d4d36d531d36083502
another heat exchanger like this ^^ will be mounted in ice cooler box in trunk area
so now onto my theory of operation...CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG

lets start in the trunk:
theres a ice chest mount in trunk, with heat exchanger mounted and plumbed inside
filling the ice chest will be simple tap water and ice cubes/ice packs
turning the water pump on via toggle switch will flow coolerd down water/coolant from heat exchanger straight into the WTA cooler
now the exit water/coolant coming out of the WTA cooler will flow into front mounted heat exchanger that is mounted infront of intercooler
cooled down water/coolant in heat exchanger will also help cool down fmic with help of air flow
now water/coolant exiting heat exchanger will flow back to ice box mounted heat exchanger in the trunk and start the cycle all over again

we all no engines run better in cold weather
so with cold air(hoping to be in the 50-60 degree area), bigger charger, bigger injectors...etc
i should be able to crank out some impressive numbers pretty easy without running the engine harder as if it was sucking in hot air

let me know what you think

 

[IJ.]

Ran PWR W2A Coolers on my 7M, very good units, my current Blown car has an W2A unit as well, far superior to A2A if you do a lot of low speed boosting, only downside is weight/bulk/complexity as it needs a fan and pump to be effective.

 

[jonahs_supra]

yes the complexity of a sufficient WTA system on a daily driver/weekend warrior is a hard task to fill
thats why i thought of a fmic plumped with a WTA cooler would be the best idea
i figured some 6-8in puller fans would help cool front heat exchanger when vehicle isnt moving at a good speed

my next task would be building a headshield of air flow vent for the WTA cooler
underhood heat of the supra is pretty wild...so to help utilize every cold degree a shield, blanket or a box in my theory should be built around

as far as weight goes im thinking there will be another 100lbs of weight with 2 heat exhchangers, wta cooler, hoses, water pump, ice chest filled with water/ice
but the outcome should out weigh the added weight?

 

[te72]

The Celica All-Trac/GT4 used a WTA setup, but it used coolant, and an external radiator. Granted, it might not run as well, but it was contained under the hood...

I just can't find a good excuse to carry around that much extra weight for the additional 10-20hp that I could see something like this giving. Granted, maybe they do a LOT better than I am giving them credit for too, so...

 

[jonahs_supra]

ST165 and ST205 ran WTA

i guess ill do some more research to see the pros and cons of WTA setup
at the very least i would probably get a spray bar for intercooler

thanks for the thoughts so far

 

[IJ.]

 

[jonahs_supra]

wow nice setup

any experience with a spray bar unit using co2?

 

[IJ.]

Never tried it the chance of thermal shock was too much of a risk for me.

 

[jonahs_supra]

so your thought/theory is that a intercooler at lets say 100 degrees being hit with 30-40 degree blast of co2(just a guess) would cause issues with intercooler?
im guessing the instant cooling of the aluminum could either make metal brittle to do fast temperature change? or cause aluminum to crank?

thanks for the thoughts

 

[IJ.]

Yep, the tubes in IC's are quite thin it doesn't take much to shock them into a leak, I also don't like things that "run out" i.e. if you don't have a spare c02 bottle you're limited to less boost/power, I build my cars so they can run at 100% capacity all the time if needed, I also don't do a dyno only tune to get the biggest number possible, what my cars make on the rollers is the same as they make on the street.

 

[jonahs_supra]

did you have an ice chest or something similar to keep intake temps real low?
or was 2 WTA coolers and 2 heat exchangers/radiators sufficient enough for low intake temps?

my st165 had the factory WTA setup...but to me the heat exchanger was to small...but it did the job IMO

care to show what type of intake temps you where showing at idle and WOT with boost psi?

Correct me if im wrong. Cooler air entering engine does not make power but the less dense air(due to low temps) of the oxygen make more power?
kind of like my car in 100 degree weather runs like poo...but in 60 degree weather its like a whole different car with more power?

 

[IJ.]

Just the Heat exchanger+pump+fan, intake temps were usually ambient + 1>2c cruising around and from memory only +20c under boost (I've have to dig though logs to be 100% sure) A2A if you slowed for any reason temps would go through the roof, not bad if you have a LOT of airflow through the IC, I had 2 dedicated fans on the A2A to try and keep them cool at low car speeds but they did FA...

Biggest downfall for W2A is the sheer size of components needed once you get to 500rwhp, small setup in pic1 was choking at around 300, bigger setup went to 495 before choking, A2A was easily seeing 550rwhp.

The cooler the charge temp the more advance/boost you can run so that's what gives the power, I've watched some of the Dyno comps where they use Dry Ice Coolers and there's a limit to the return you get from the colder charge, again I build road cars so dry ice just isn't an option.

All depends on what the end use of your car is going to be.

 

[jonahs_supra]

ok so lets say my current setup:
automatic
maft pro(speed density)
walbro 255
aeromotive a1000 afpr
godspeed fmic
2.5 hard pipes
3in downpipe
2.5in straight pipe exhaust
ct26 til i pick up my lipp boss 61mm turbo on sunday

is pretty good for my daily driving needs
but with original idea of adding W2A cooler on cold charge piping side would be ideal for my needs

through the week i wont have to mess with the W2A setup...just leave the pump turned off
then on the weekend at the track simply fill up the ice chest with ice cubes/packs then this should atleast drop my intake temps a bit

but the next question or area of concern...with the adding of another intercooler(W2A)
wouldnt this add more of a resistance to the charged air now having to go through 2 coolers?
or would the difference not be noticeable?

thanks again for the help/brain picking

 

[IJ.]

You might see as much as a 2psi drop through 2x IC's..

What is your power goal?

 

[jonahs_supra]

500rwhp is the goal
testing the waters with stock internal motor(80k miles)

right now at full boost on a 95 degree day my IAT show 160 degrees by 5,500rpms
but this could be do to location of IAT sensor...mounted in 3000pipe(moving down to passenger fender well this weekend)

 

[Smashey]

i've been curious on this subject as well, but haven't done any research. i hope you can come up with a good solution. IJ what exactly is the limiting factor in a w2a exchanger system, the only problems i have assosiated with w2a is heat soak, weight, and another liquid to leak.

 

[IJ.]

W2A With an Exchanger, Pump and Fan doesn't heat soak too badly at all being an active system.

As I said biggest downside is getting hardware large enough to flow over 500rwhp, the PWR Barell cooler was 8"x10" from memory so HUGE and anything larger is almost impossible to mount in the front of a Mk3.

 

[te72]

Jonah, are you opposed to running a water/methanol injection setup? Might be good for low speed driving (auto cross?), and things of that sort. I know Flyin Miata used this in place of an intercooler (no space) on their Miata powered Westfield.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/Torgan/index.php

 

[jonahs_supra]

well my car is going to mainly be a daily(hopefuly getting another daily) and a weekend warrior(1/4 mile)

i havent really researched water/meth injection.
ups and downs of it?
is water/meth setup ok to use with maft pro or would standalone be needed?

ill do some researching on it today

thanks for the help

 

[bloodasp90]

ive seen alot of guys around my area (due to john reed mostly, in the MKIVs) use alot of different meth injection systems, i know several of the guys who have put on 30,000+miles on there cars, and not have any problems other then them complaing of them having to always fill there tanks cause theyre lead foots.. lol