TCCS question

bwest

bwest

Drafting, not tailgating
May 18, 2005
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HippieTown, CA
Figgie-

he mentioned changing the plugs/ wires after pulling it out of storage (150 miles)

Josh Sulsberger said:
The oil was changed right when I pulled it out of storage, so about 150 miles ago. The air filter is also new in the last few thousand miles or so. At the same time that I did the seal replacement, I changed the plugs and wires, and replaced the hardware for the valve covers with the allen head and lockwashers.
Click to expand...

What we don't know is plug type/brand (same with wires) but unless he has a cp that is weak, the difference should be negligible because of how new the parts are (unless it was the random chance of getting a bad plug out of the box).
 
F

figgie

Supramania Contributor
Mar 30, 2005
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Twin Cities, Minnesot-ah
Yikes!!

My bad. Dunno how I missed that part :)

well I still would focus on the coil packs and more specifically. At night where you can easily see the blue arcing ;)
 
Josh Sulsberger

Josh Sulsberger

Down for whatever
Apr 9, 2005
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Milwaukee, WI
Too cold to stay out there long, but I did check for ignition arcing. Nothing happening there, and it's real dark!

If it's warmer tomorrow, I'll get the other data. I think my equipment will suffice...
 
Josh Sulsberger

Josh Sulsberger

Down for whatever
Apr 9, 2005
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Milwaukee, WI
Data collected:
Vf @ 2500RPM approx +2.4VDC when at operating temp
Temp at Random Tech cat inlet 440 F
Temp at body of tech (non-heat shielded side) 220 F
Temp at cat outlet 120 F

Additional finding:

Car had not given check engine light. However, when jumper was installed code 51! TSRM says A/C, TPS or ECU. FYI, A/C is out of commision on the car...
 
jetjock

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
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Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
At least the cat is working. Working hard too. HC must be pretty bad engine-out if the tailpipe numbers are that high. Is that Vf of 2.4 volts at 2500 rpm with the jumper in or out? And if with the jumper in is it an average?

Is compression OK?

As I said before you have two problems. The CO shows the engine to be slightly rich but it'd be nice to confirm it. Need to know what Vf average is to figure out where the mixture is. A scope put on the raw O2 sensor would be even better.

Code 51 is usually caused by the IDL contact in the TPS not being closed at closed throttle. It's normal when the throttle is cracked so if you were seeing it then relax. Just be sure it's gone when the throttle is closed.
 
Josh Sulsberger

Josh Sulsberger

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Apr 9, 2005
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Milwaukee, WI
Vf with jumper in. Taken as an average at operating temp.
No compression test done, but car seems to have good power... Is a formal compression test my next step?
I was just outside checking on the TPS... Infinite impedance from IDL-E2 all the time, unless I physically push the throttle further closed than it does on it's own. I am not superman, so not off too far, and I can see that if adjusted the TPS does function. Is the proper way to fix that to adjust the stop screw?
 
jetjock

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
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Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
Adjust the TPS as per the manual. I'm surprised the engine idled anywhere near right the way it was. A compression test would be nice. Do a piston soak while the plugs are out. After you adjust the TPS set ignition timing.
 
Josh Sulsberger

Josh Sulsberger

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Apr 9, 2005
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OK, got the sensor to read normally. I don't have a timing light here, so I'll have to go and see my friend for that. I'll get compression numbers while I've got the car there too...
 
Josh Sulsberger

Josh Sulsberger

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Apr 9, 2005
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Milwaukee, WI
Think I should use Berryman B12 for the soak? Someone suggested Marvel Mystery Oil...seems like it might be bad for the cats. Opinion?

By the way, thanks for all the help that everyone has given!
Josh
 
jetjock

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
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Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
Berryman's will do. Just enough to submerge the crowns. Let it sit overnight if you can so it gets down into the ring packs. Don't get your hopes up. A dysfunctional TPS would only cause high HC during decel but your problem is under load. However if timing was previously set with the TPS as you found it that wouldn't be a good thing. It's why you need to check it. Before you do make sure the MIL is flashing the "normal" code of one blink every 1/4 second. Before you retest also run a full dose of a polyether amine based fuel cleaner in a 1/4 tank of fuel. Techcron, Redline SI-1, or the yellow Gumout Regane is PEA based. And I'm trusting you on the condition of the ignition system because misfire is a common cause of HC.
 
Josh Sulsberger

Josh Sulsberger

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Apr 9, 2005
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Snow melted, so I'm back in business. Compression test performed today, engine at operating temp, EFI fuse pulled, soark disabled, throttle blocked open.
Cylinder 1 150
Cylinder 2 145
Cylinder 3 140
Cylinder 4 145
Cylinder 5 150
Cylinder 6 150

Notes: All cylinders hit around 90 psi after first stroke, and gave reported value by fourth. I've got the cyliders soaking now, so I'll re-set timing tomorrow. Should I try to get the Berrymans out with something before I start it up?
 
S

supra90mkiii

Member
Apr 2, 2005
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Racine, WI
I'm almost positive the cat is supposed to have a higher temperature at the outlet than the inlet, because of the chemical reaction that occurs. also, cats don't start working until they reach 500F.
 
jetjock

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
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Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
I assumed he mixed the inlet and and outlet up. It can't work as described and if the cat was dead there wouldn't have been much of a difference at all. Or he may have done it at idle and it hadn't fully lit off yet. That said now that I look at the post again 120 is very low, far too low for an inlet. And you'd think with all the HC the cat would be much hotter.

Josh: The solvent will either drain down or flash of. If it doesn't cover the spark plug wells with a rag and crank the engine over a few times to expel what's left. And measure the cat again after driving the car. And unless you have an expensive IR gun you need to be close when doing the checks.
 
Josh Sulsberger

Josh Sulsberger

Down for whatever
Apr 9, 2005
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Milwaukee, WI
Did the timing, looked a little retarded at base, maybe a degree. Maybe you guys can give me some insight, but it seemed like there was some flucuation when setting base timing, meaning the notch didn't stay in exactly the same place strobe to strobe... Problem, or just due to the wasted spark thing?

Also of note: The input harness to the coilpacks had some cracking on the wire insulation. Replaced all cracked wires. Like I posted earlier, I didn't see any arcing, but that couldn't have been good.

51 is now cleared, and MIL gives standard signal.

Regarding the cat, that's the #'s I got, where I got them. I'll recollect the data tomorrow when I've just gotten home to make sure everything is up to operating temp...

I also have the original Toyota cat that could be reinstalled pending the results.

Couldn't find the Redline (who carrys the SI-1 these days?) so I'm using the Techron.
 
jetjock

jetjock

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Jul 11, 2005
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Timing will normally jitter a bit. It's good to get into the habit of checking the light beforehand to verify the jumper is making contact.

My bad on the cat. I assumed you mixed the numbers up. If they turn out to be the same after driving the car you should try another. Look for at least a 200 degree rise between the inlet and outlet. Be sure and drive the car first though. I recently checked emissions for a member after doing major engine work and even at high idle the cat had trouble lighting off. All it took was a quick drive to see HC plummet. Fwiw that engine ended up being one of the cleanest I'd ever seen.

Generally speaking I dislike aftermarket cats. Many are cheap because they're small. Because of the precious metals used a cat's price is related to it's size and smaller means less active surface. They work but are easily overwhelmed and quick to die. It's why they're called "one pass" cats in the emissions biz. Not that you can't get a good aftermarket cat, just that bigger is better and that means more expensive. Unfortunately people usually take the cheap way out when it comes to emissions equipment.

Techcron will do fine. It's not likely to solve the problem but a dose of PEA will clean deposits that contribute to HC.
 
Josh Sulsberger

Josh Sulsberger

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Apr 9, 2005
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Milwaukee, WI
Did the temp check again after the drive but results didn't match format we were hoping for:

~375F in
~250F body
~375F out

I took all measurements between the flanges of the cat this time, last time it was downpipe/body of cat/exhaust and the differing materials may have given bad data.

I'm thinking that I should reinstall the original cat and see what temps I get that way.
 
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