Stand Alone Weak Spark

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TwistedArchon

New Member
May 11, 2012
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Durban
I am hoping the global community can help me solve this problem. I have fitted a 1JZ-GTE VVTi into a e46 BMW 318ti.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151405161805440.853369.564250439&type=3&l=4da358a866

I am having weak spark problems which I have to mask by running 0.50mm gaps (0.02") on my plugs (NGK BCPR7E). Any bigger gaps results in break up under boost. Fuel consumption is 20L/100km (11.75MPG) irrespective of how hard the vehicle is driven. It has a cable throttlebody (ETCS removed). Standalone management system is a Gotech Pro-X. Being the VVTi it is a wasted spark system, I have sealed the coils with Liquid Electrical Tape and Heatshrink as well as removing them and testing on a load bench with no break down or ground leakage so the coils seem unlikely to be the problem. I have replaced the leads too.

Boost is currently at 0.8 Bar max (11.5 PSI) stock, no controller.

Power figures are good though 220rwkw 414nm (293WHP 305 ft lbs). Stock JDM injectors (370cc I believe) 3" exhaust system with VTA BOV.

Any ideas how to trouble shoot and/or repair this would be very welcome.

Thank you.
 
T

TwistedArchon

New Member
May 11, 2012
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Durban
Thanks for the responses. I dont think i have an igniter at all (which could be the problem) the management system is direct fire I believe (http://www.gotech.co.za/productprox.html) perhaps the details on that page would clarify if i need a separate igniter or not to someone more knowledgeable of ems than I (do the 1JZ coils support direct fire or do they need an igniter? if so would I need to swap them to coils with built in igniters?). I asked the tuner if the management system has a dwell table but it is a fixed value which we took up to 3.5 and it helped a little. What would a normal dwell time be? I dont want to wreck the coils but the fuel consumption and poor idling (switches off constantly when cold) is frustrating. I am using the alternator from the 1JZ so voltage should be stock for it. (Could the BMW spec battery cause voltage issues?). Thanks again for your time and assistance.
 
IndigoMKII

IndigoMKII

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May 9, 2011
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Madison, Virginia
TwistedArchon;1873722 said:
Thanks for the responses. I dont think i have an igniter at all (which could be the problem) the management system is direct fire I believe (http://www.gotech.co.za/productprox.html) perhaps the details on that page would clarify if i need a separate igniter or not to someone more knowledgeable of ems than I (do the 1JZ coils support direct fire or do they need an igniter? if so would I need to swap them to coils with built in igniters?). I asked the tuner if the management system has a dwell table but it is a fixed value which we took up to 3.5 and it helped a little. What would a normal dwell time be? I dont want to wreck the coils but the fuel consumption and poor idling (switches off constantly when cold) is frustrating. I am using the alternator from the 1JZ so voltage should be stock for it. (Could the BMW spec battery cause voltage issues?). Thanks again for your time and assistance.
Click to expand...

The 1jz I had used an igniter, as to whether they support direct fire? I don't know.
 
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TwistedArchon

New Member
May 11, 2012
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Durban
Mine was a JDM import which came without any electronics. I have added a standalone management system. With the standalone and 1JZ wasted spark coils do you still need the igniter between the two? If not would this cause the symptoms I am having? If I am to replace them what coils can I use as an alternative? (the JZ series of motor only came out in Lexus here and they quoted me USD225 each!!! so for 6 the price would be almost the same as i paid for the entire motor). I have read about the LS1 coils but they would be very difficult to find here in South Africa. Any toyota alternatives with built in igniters? I am happy to make up an adapter mounting plate for them.
 
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Funkycheeze

Grease Monkey
Jul 3, 2009
163
0
16
Calgary
You can use 2JZ-GE waste fire coils x3 along with the wires to fire the other 3 cylingers. Unless your EMS has enough jam (and is rated) to directly trigger the coils, you should be using an ingiter. The 2JZ-GE coils use a DH61 3 channel smart igniter which sets the dwell automatically. Or you can use a CDI box.
 
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TwistedArchon

New Member
May 11, 2012
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Durban
I have re-read the installation manual (i had a tuner do the installation so did not study it in depth originally) just to check if it is meant to direct fire and it appears that it does since the layout diagram shows 7 pins, one common to all 6 coil positives and 6 pins individually wired to each of the coils negative terminals for full sequential mode (there is no intermediate unit representing igniter/driver block). The manual gives a warning to contact them if your coils have built in drivers so I assume the coils used with this system are not meant to have built in drivers then. I do not see any way to connect a wasted spark setup using this management system in their setup guide. It has layout diagrams for single coil and layout for six coils, so perhaps by using only three coil outputs I am only outputting half the power of the system to the coils? (hence my weak spark).

The JZ series never came to SA officially so which coils without built in igniters could I use to replace my wasted spark setup since I feel now that could be the problem. I did see somewhere guys using yaris coils? I do not wish to mount coils externally and run leads, id like to stick with COP. I am looking to achieve up to 400RWHP once i change my injectors and add a boost controller so coils for massive power are not necessary at this stage (just ones that will work,which i can find and are cost effective).

Thanks for all the input and assistance, I really appreciate it.
 
F

Funkycheeze

Grease Monkey
Jul 3, 2009
163
0
16
Calgary
There are several solutions for COP with 1 ignitor per coil, even some aftermarket coils, which might be a better choice since the dwell times will be known. This is important to set so the coils get a full charge (but not overcharged)
 
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TwistedArchon

New Member
May 11, 2012
9
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0
Durban
Thank you. Do you know which model toyota COP do not have igniters? I believe the issue is in the wasted spark setup, not the lack of an igniter (the EMS does not support built in drivers). I am looking for ones like the 2JZ ones but unfortunately those are not available here.
 
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Funkycheeze

Grease Monkey
Jul 3, 2009
163
0
16
Calgary
Other than the stock JZ-GTE coilpacks (6) and the 3 waste spark JZ-GE coilpacks, and the 7M-GTE waste spark coilpacks, I am not familiar with any other Toyota COP setups. I have heard perhaps Camry or Celica coils? I am sure there is more information on this forum, or someone else might chime in.
 
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TwistedArchon

New Member
May 11, 2012
9
0
0
Durban
NOTE:
The Gotech PRO X ecu is equipped with a built in ignition ignitor. If external coil drivers or coils with built
in drivers are used the Gotech ecu would need to be modified. Please contact your nearest Gotech
distributor for more info.

Ok so for sure I want 6 coils without igniters to run full sequential timing. I am sure i can find a MSD distributor here, are there any MSD COP that work well with 1JZ's?
 
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TwistedArchon

New Member
May 11, 2012
9
0
0
Durban
Ok found 6 x CBR600 coils for USD340 vs 2JZ coils for USD1350. Any other comments on using these before I go ahead and order them? Anyone know of 1JZ's who have successfully used them? Thanks :)
 
T

TwistedArchon

New Member
May 11, 2012
9
0
0
Durban
Sigh, I broke my diff this weekend. Guess 1JZ is too strong for a 318ti diff :p. Now I need to go and find an M3 lsd :/ always something. The management system i have does not have a dwell table but a fixed dwell time. What dwell time should i be using with the stock 1JZ-GTE vvti wasted spark coils? I have similar plugs, BCPR7E gapped to 0.019" (which i am sure is too small for 0.8 Bar boost but i get break up otherwise)
 
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