roll cages

northwestsupra

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Sep 19, 2006
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anyone know a good place to get one near me? marsville washington 98270..

i did a search for online stuff and all i see so far is
http://www.swracecars.com/store/view-item-search.aspx?Search=supra

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/performanceparts/Toyota/Supra_MK3/Suspension/Roll_Cages

HPF is close to me, if i remember right they are in portland oregon, I got a guy across the street who has a mig and tube bender and frame building experience :) he made himself a dune buggy ground up and its rockin a gixxer 650cc i think he said. Full cage is what im looking for, not just a roll bar. Plus if anyone has pictures of their cage installs that would be very helpful.

also my car is a 87 targa so mainly looking at targa install pics, and also interested in door bars and how people went through the dash
 

strictlySupra

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Dec 19, 2006
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i think you might have issues with head clearance if you try to build a full cage while retaining a fully functioning targa.

you could always drop the a-pillar bars down a bit but then its gettin close to your head, custom seat rail is an easy fix for this.

there are strict guidelines if you want your cage to be legit, and legal in FD or gt1,2,3 ... positioning of bars, amount of bends in certain bars, plate surface area etc.
 

strictlySupra

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here are a couple shots of some of the cage work we did. the door bars were a cool idea but id go for something lower if i did it over

p1705830_1.jpg


p1705830_2.jpg
 

spencyg

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Oct 7, 2010
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If you just want a cage for looks, well, you're crazy.

If you want a cage for tech inspection purposes at the local track/strip, than you can't just have some guy with a MIG welder and a pipe bender have at it. The rule book for cages for NHRA and SCCA events / tracks is very specific, both in design and manufacture. Get the book or find a shop which builds approved cages and have them do it. This isn't something to be taken lightly. A poorly constructed cage can be more dangerous than no cage at all.

SGinNE
 

northwestsupra

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spencyg;1706717 said:
If you just want a cage for looks, well, you're crazy.

If you want a cage for tech inspection purposes at the local track/strip, than you can't just have some guy with a MIG welder and a pipe bender have at it. The rule book for cages for NHRA and SCCA events / tracks is very specific, both in design and manufacture. Get the book or find a shop which builds approved cages and have them do it. This isn't something to be taken lightly. A poorly constructed cage can be more dangerous than no cage at all.

SGinNE

Why would I be doing this for just looks. Obviously I'm concerned about my safety. I plan on having it built to track requirements and I've seen this guys work and its pretty damn impressive. I hope to get the rear sub frame braced also. If I was looking for just looks I'd just get a street roll bar and not a full out 10 point cage. my main concern is the targa mounts and clearance for that. I'm also 6'5 - 6'6 and head clearance with helmet on might be another issue for me. I'm more height in my legs though

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Dylan JZ

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Oct 18, 2007
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One can do a decent amount of adjusting for height with the help of steering wheel spacers and as previously mentioned, seat rails.
 

spencyg

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Well if the guy builds approved cages with DOM tube, certified welds, etc, than you're all set. I'm sure that level of work costs however, but you knew that. Just don't let somebody with a flux core mig welder and a pile of SCH40 pipe anywhere near your car.

Good luck.
 

northwestsupra

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Dylan JZ;1707076 said:
One can do a decent amount of adjusting for height with the help of steering wheel spacers and as previously mentioned, seat rails.
thanks for mentioning steering wheel spacers, i kind of for got those, although with the new wheel and momo adapter i have on there + quick release it added some length to it, the seats in there are some custom fiberglass ones made in texas "thats all i know" lol and they have a universal mount to them.

---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

spencyg;1707094 said:
Well if the guy builds approved cages with DOM tube, certified welds, etc, than you're all set. I'm sure that level of work costs however, but you knew that. Just don't let somebody with a flux core mig welder and a pile of SCH40 pipe anywhere near your car.

Good luck.

so your saying its impossible for a hobbiest to have the ability to weld "approved cages" and im planning on DOM i was looking at chrome molly but it sounds like it takes alot more to get that welded in place "tig"
 

Van

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Mar 26, 2006
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Oak Grove, OR 97267
northwestsupra;1705730 said:
anyone know a good place to get one near me? marsville washington 98270..

i did a search for online stuff and all i see so far is
http://www.swracecars.com/store/view-item-search.aspx?Search=supra

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/performanceparts/Toyota/Supra_MK3/Suspension/Roll_Cages

HPF is close to me, if i remember right they are in portland oregon, I got a guy across the street who has a mig and tube bender and frame building experience :) he made himself a dune buggy ground up and its rockin a gixxer 650cc i think he said. Full cage is what im looking for, not just a roll bar. Plus if anyone has pictures of their cage installs that would be very helpful.

also my car is a 87 targa so mainly looking at targa install pics, and also interested in door bars and how people went through the dash
You can't go wrong taking your Supra to Russ at Racetech. He is next door to the shop that built my 7M. Give Russ a call for a quote. Van
http://www.racetechmotorsports.com/
 

northwestsupra

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Sep 19, 2006
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Van;1707458 said:
You can't go wrong taking your Supra to Russ at Racetech. He is next door to the shop that built my 7M. Give Russ a call for a quote. Van
http://www.racetechmotorsports.com/

www.racetechmotorsports.com contains content from eurox5.biz, a site known to distribute malware. Your computer might catch a virus if you visit this site.

says google chrome :p

---------- Post added at 10:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 PM ----------

RPSil13;1707437 said:
@northwest, can you post a pic of your seats, im having an issue w/ mine sitting to high

thanks

ill try to go and grab some here in a bit
 
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northwestsupra

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Sep 19, 2006
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This is what NHRA is requiring of the Roll cage

All cage structures must be designed in an attempt to protect the
driver from any angle, 360 degrees. All 4130 chromoly tube welding
must be done by approved TIG heliarc process; mild steel tube
welding must be approved MIG wire feed or TIG heliarc process.
Welding must be free of slag and porosity. Any grinding of welds
prohibited. Plating of chassis prohibited for all cars manufactured
after Jan. 1, 2003, unless otherwise noted in Class Requirements;
painting permitted. Additionally, roll cage must be padded anywhere
the driver’s helmet may contact it while in the driving position.
Beginning June 1, 2011, all cars running 9.99 (*6.39) and quicker,
padding must meet SFI Spec 45.1. Additional padding mounted on
flat stock and fastened to the roll cage on both sides of the driver's
helmet, mandatory in Pro Mod, Top Alcohol Dragster, Top Alcohol
Funny Car, Pro Stock, Funny Car, and Top Fuel. Additional padding
must be NHRA-accepted (with manufacturer’s name displayed),
securely mounted using bolts or locking fasteners, and must include
flame-retardant covering. A current list of NHRA-accepted lateral
head supports is available on NHRA.com. Refer to illustrations in
Section 4:11 as well as specific Class Requirements for the
applicable e.t. and body-style roll-cage requirements. Open-bodied
cars running 9.99 and quicker and/or faster than 135 mph must meet applicable SFI Specification for e.t. (see Class Requirements).
Full-bodied cars running 8.49 and quicker and/or exceeding 180
mph must meet applicable SFI Specification for e.t. and weight (see
Class Requirements). SFI Specifications may be purchased from
the SFI Foundation (sfifoundation.com, 858-451-8868); SFI
Specifications are not available from NHRA Technical Services.

Full-Bodied Cars
On full-bodied cars with driver in driving position, helmet must be in
front of main hoop. If helmet is behind or under main hoop,
additional tubing same size and thickness as roll cage must be
added to protect driver. Main hoop may be laid back or forward, but
driver must be encapsulated within the required roll-cage
components. On unibody cars with stock floor and firewall (wheel
tubs permitted), the roll cage may be bolted or welded to the
floor/rocker box via 6-inch x 6-inch x .125-inch steel plates similar to
the roll-bar attachment requirements of paragraph 4:10 in this
section. Unless attaching to OEM floor or frame, the minimum requirements for a frame member to which a roll-cage member is
attached are 1 5/8-inch x .118-inch MS or .083-inch CM round
and/or 2-inch x 2-inch x .058 MS or CM rectangular.
All cage structures must have in their construction a cross bar for
seat bracing and as the shoulder harness attachment point; cross
bar must be installed no more than 4 inches below, and not above,
the driver’s shoulders, or to side bar. All required rear braces must
be installed at a minimum angle of 30 degrees from vertical and
must be welded in. Side bar must pass the driver at a point midway
between the shoulder and elbow.
Unless an OEM framerail is located below and outside of driver’s
legs (i.e., ’55 Chevy, ’65 Corvette, etc.) a rocker or sill bar, minimum
1 5/8-inch x .083 CM or .118 MS or 2-inch x 2-inch x .058-inch CM
or MS rectangular, is mandatory in any car with a modified floor or
rocker box within the roll-cage uprights (excluding 6 square feet of
transmission maintenance opening). Rocker bar must be installed
below and outside of driver’s legs and must tie into the main hoop,
the forward hoop, frame, frame extension, or side diagonal. Rocker
bar may not tie into swing-out side bar support. If rocker bar ties
into side diagonal more than 5 inches (edge to edge) from forward
roll-cage support or main hoop, a 1 5/8-inch x .083 CM or .118 MS
brace/gusset is mandatory between the diagonal and forward rollcage
support or main hoop.
“D” bar installation for full-bodied cars: For front-wheel-drive cars,
with complete OEM floor (from the firewall to the rear of the trunk)
and rocker/sill boxes, the 1 1/4-inch x .058-inch CM (.118-inch MS)
“D” bars (when required; i.e., when the main hoop is not welded to
the frame) may be welded to a 1 5/8-inch x .083-inch CM (.118-inch
MS) crossmember welded to the rocker/sill box via conventional 6-
inch x 6-inch x 1/8-inch-thick plates. For rear-wheel-drive cars, with
neither a frame nor subframe connectors, but with complete OEM
floor (from the firewall to the rear of the trunk; exception: the rear
inner wheelwells may be tubbed with steel or aluminum), the 1 1/4-
inch x .058-inch CM (or .118-inch MS) “D” bars may be welded to
conventional 6-inch x 6-inch x 1/8-inch formfitted/contoured plates
attached to the driveshaft tunnel. Otherwise, the “D” bars must be
attached to frame, subframe, or subframe connectors.
Swing-out side bar permitted on OEM full-bodied car 8.50 e.t. and
slower. The following requirements (a through d) apply:
a. 1 5/8-inch O.D. x .083-inch CM or .118-inch MS minimum.
Bolts/pins must be 3/8-inch-diameter steel, minimum and in
double shear at both ends.
b. Male or female clevis(es) permitted. Male clevis must use two
minimum 1/8-inch-thick brackets (CM or MS) welded to each rollcage
upright; female must use minimum 1/4-inch-thick bracket
(CM or MS) welded to each roll-cage upright. Pins must be within
8 inches of the vertical portion of both the forward and main
hoops. A half-cup backing device must be welded to the vertical
portion of the main hoop (inward side) or the upper end of the
swing-out bar (outward side), minimum .118-inch wall (CM or
MS) extending at least 1 5/8 inches past the center of the pins. A
clevis assembly using a minimum .350-inch-thick male
component and two minimum .175-inch-thick female components
may use a 1/2-inch-diameter Grade 5 bolt and does not require a
half-cup backing device.
c. Sliding sleeves of 1 3/8-inch x .083 CM or .118 MS, with
minimum 2-inch engagement, are permitted in lieu of the upper
pin/cup.
d. All bolt/pin holes in the swing-out bar must have at least one-hole
diameter of material around the outside of the hole.
Steel-bodied pickup trucks (7.50 seconds and slower), roll cages
are permitted with no back braces if the roll cage satisfies SFI
25.1E, 25.2, 25.4, or the roll cage consists of a 4-point (door car)
cage with a complete SFI 2.4B, 2.5B, 2.6, 2.7A dragster, SFI 10.2,
10.3 altered, or SFI 10.4 street roadster roll cage/driver’s
compartment incorporated into and attached to the 4-point roll
cage. An upper windshield bar is mandatory.
Non-steel-bodied pickup trucks (7.50 seconds and slower), roll
cages are permitted with no back braces if the roll cage satisfies
SFI 25.1E, 25.2, 25.4, or the roll cage satisfies the requirements for
SFI 2.4B, 2.5B, 2.6, 2.7A dragster, SFI 10.2, 10.3 altered, or SFI
10.4 street roadster roll cage/driver’s compartment. No 4-point
(door car) cage is required and no upper windshield bar is required.
On all cars requiring a roll cage, if the OEM firewall has been
modified (in excess of 1 square foot for transmission removal, not
including bolted in components) a lower windshield or dash bar of 1
1/4 x .058-inch 4130 chromoly or 1 1/4 x .118-inch mild steel is
mandatory connecting the forward cage supports.
All joints indicated as tube-to-tube joints/intersections must be
fabricated by properly notching the components to fit with minimum
clearance unless otherwise noted. Crushing the end of a tube to
oval in lieu of properly notching/fitting the tube is not acceptable.
Welding a plate to the side of one tube and butt welding the other
tube to the plate surface in lieu of properly notching/fitting the tube
is not acceptable.
For Sportsman full-bodied cars that require a roll cage (7.50
seconds and slower, including cars inspected to SFI 25.4 or 25.5): If the windshield/roof bars are interrupted by the dash bar, then either
the entire dash bar must be minimum 1 1/2-inch x .058-inch CM
(.118-inch MS) or the entire dash bar must be minimum 1 1/4-inch x
.058-inch CM (.118-inch MS) and must be braced with gussets to
both the upper and lower sections of each windshield/roof bar. The
gussets may be either 1.75-inch x 1.75-inch x .110-inch (with one
1/2-inch-diameter and two 5/16-inch-diameter holes maximum)
4130 CM or MS plate (triangle shaped) or 3/4-inch x.049-inch CM
(.118-inch MS) tubing at least 4 inches long. An interrupted
windshield/roof bar is defined as one that has been completely
severed into upper and lower sections/pieces and then the
sections/pieces are welded to the dash bar.
 

spencyg

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Oct 7, 2010
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Maine, USA
northwestsupra;1707246 said:
so your saying its impossible for a hobbiest to have the ability to weld "approved cages" and im planning on DOM i was looking at chrome molly but it sounds like it takes alot more to get that welded in place "tig"

If I were racing and I thought the strength of the cage might be the difference between walking away with a good story vs. being carried out in a stretcher than I wouldn't trust amature hobby welds or unqualified cage design in any way, shape, or form. Cages are there to save a life....if you honestly think your understanding of triangulated space frame design and proper certified welding techniques rivals that of engineers and professional fabricators and welders, than you're crazy. I know you weren't suggesting that you would be the one building the cage, but trusting somebody else to do the work because "that go cart they built in their driveway looked pretty good" is pretty silly IMO. I used to be a professional fabricator, and I wouldn't touch certified cages due to the liability involved.

SGinNE
 

northwestsupra

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spencyg;1707572 said:
If I were racing and I thought the strength of the cage might be the difference between walking away with a good story vs. being carried out in a stretcher than I wouldn't trust amature hobby welds or unqualified cage design in any way, shape, or form. Cages are there to save a life....if you honestly think your understanding of triangulated space frame design and proper certified welding techniques rivals that of engineers and professional fabricators and welders, than you're crazy. I know you weren't suggesting that you would be the one building the cage, but trusting somebody else to do the work because "that go cart they built in their driveway looked pretty good" is pretty silly IMO. I used to be a professional fabricator, and I wouldn't touch certified cages due to the liability involved.

SGinNE

i know the importance of the roll cage, im thankful your posting your thoughts and opions that is what this site is good, for. Also its a dune buggy not a go cart
this is a similar design to what his looks like in case you were curious what a real mans go kart looks like
132982d1241601450-dune-buggy-before-paint.jpg

132986d1241601565-dune-buggy-cimg0025.jpg


i asked him to come over yesterday and take a look at some stuff that i was doing and he tought me some new stuff when it came to fabricating brackets and my mind got blown, idk what this guys history is but i know he deffinatly knows more about fabricating than i do, and i know he knows alot more about making a exo cage than i do. And i know that his welder isnt just you $75 welder from your local parts store, its a big boy welder. But now instead of sitting here all day and telling me how my guy probably isnt good enough to make a cage maybe you could be like Van and give me a website to look at, maybe a place to call and get a quote. Because without having other options i'll just have a dead end and a car with no cage because my friend across the street obviously cant be good enough, hell idk he could have been a fabricator for a living or an engineer, i'll ask him next time i see him, if not i know engineers, and i know a couple of very good fabricators. If i need to get them and put them in one room ill do it. I'll even drop their notes on here for you guys to see them so the next guy like who comes on and needs help with it will have the information. :)

---------- Post added at 04:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

also i have a .pdf of the 2011 NHRA rule book if anyone is intrested, dont want to get in trouble for posting that being that it cost $10 from the NHRA site lol