Replacement Speakers Sound Worse-Advice Please

ChadMKIII

ChadMKIII

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Jul 14, 2006
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Hey, soooo I replaced the stock front 6.5"s on my 91 with Pioneer TS-A1671R 3-ways (clicky to see them). The speakers are 220W max, 35W RMS. I've only replaced the passenger side right now, and I'm noticing I actually like the sound coming from the stockers better, and they seem to have better range and quality all around.

Why I Chose Them Over the Infinity's I Planned to Buy:
Yes, I know was advised the more cones will sound worse-read on. I was planning on spending the extra 20 bucks on Infinity Reference's, but they had even less low end support than these Pioneers did, and since I have no sub these will be the base of my system and be providing all of my bass support and mid's as well, so since the Reference's sounded very high and bright and tenor-y I decided they wouldn't sound good enough by themselves. Plus, their RMS rating was higher than my deck could even provide max, so I figured they wouldn't be able to use enough of their potential to sound good. The Pioneers seemed to have a good deal better low range so I went with them.
The two I was comparing:
Infinity
Pioneer

The Problem:
So, after I've been driving around now, I turned the Fade to the front and have been flipping the balance back and forth, and have noticed much more clear, powerful sound throughout all ranges, as well as more volume, coming from my stock. My headunit is a Kenwood w/ built-in MOSFET amp, 45W x 4 max, 22W x 4 RMS (see here). I switched the settings to 6.5" speakers from OEM speakers, still sounds crappy. I've adjusted every last little thing in every single combination and permutation and whatever other -ations and the stocks still sound better.

Can It Be?:
So, if I had a more powerful, external amp would that make them sound better than the stocks/improve them noticeably? Does anyone think the Reference's would end up sounding better than stock/the new Pioneers if adjusted differently? Any advice? Cuz I'm seriously considering just going back to stock, I really don't have the money for a terrific sound system but I want it to sound better than it did. I just have a hard time believing that the new ones would sound worse than the already terrible stocks....

Any ideas would be appreciated!!! :(

Cliffs:
Replaced stock speakers, running off crappy Kenwood deck w/ built in 45x4 MOSFET amp, the new Pioneers sound worse than the stockers. Whats going on?
 
ChadMKIII

ChadMKIII

Yup, Thats The G/F
Jul 14, 2006
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Yep, played for literally an hour on the EQ, I'm sure I tried every possible combination. Lol. No x-overs on it, that I know of.
And they're installed exactly the same as the stock, just tightly screwed into the stock pod.
 
ChadMKIII

ChadMKIII

Yup, Thats The G/F
Jul 14, 2006
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mattjk said:
cheap speaker will sound cheap. I don't know why that's so hard to understand... expecially big cheap speakers. I always tell people, go smaller and more expensive... whatever.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wasn't expecting even really good quality, but I did expect them to be a significant improvement over stock.

Anyone think the $100 Infinity's will sound better and be able to provide enough bass for the whole system?
 
mattjk

mattjk

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NO! Get a used set of mb quart reference 5 1/4 on ebay. The last gen references... they go for about $125.

Installation plays a big role also. You need a good seal, and I don't mean the back of the speaker... the seal of the front speaker to the door panel opening it where you want a good seal.

You need a sub if you want bass.
 
suprahero

suprahero

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Now that's what I call above and beyond the call of duty............good job Matt............lol
 
GotToyota?

GotToyota?

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Pioneers are good speakers for the front. Pioneers are designed for more depth/bass, which is normally better for rear speakers.

A system is supposed to get the best sound from the front, as if you were in a concert. The Infinity's will be better then the Pioneers, but not as good as the smaller speakers Matt suggested.
 
ChadMKIII

ChadMKIII

Yup, Thats The G/F
Jul 14, 2006
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Thanks Matt, I'll look into those.
So you're saying those will truly sound much better than the stocks.
And when you said good seal to the door panel opening, you mean it needs to be sealed up against the metal hole? Or something else...?

Also, those look REALLY deep. Do you have them, or know of any problems using ones that deep. Won't they be a bit close to the glass? I'll ask for mounting depth from the seller, but sheesh.

And thanks so much for looking that up, I'll second what Jay said!
 
ChadMKIII

ChadMKIII

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Jul 14, 2006
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So if those MB Quarts are 100W RMS / 200W max each, and my headunit can only get 18~22W RMS & 45W max per chan, will that be enough to power those speakers well or will I need an amp to make it sound good? And I found these: 6.5" MB Quarts Does that look good? Or is there some particular reason I should get a 5.25 if I can afford the 6.5s? Are the Reference's a lot better than that model?
 
mattjk

mattjk

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an external amp (read: high quality external amp) will always sound better than the internal radio amp. It will have more power reserve and damping factor to produce a more effortless and cleaner (less distortion. distortion = harsh tinny output) weighted sound.

Anyhow, yeah, that is an awesome deal for those speakers. I'm going to have to order a set next week. I love those speakers.
 
ChadMKIII

ChadMKIII

Yup, Thats The G/F
Jul 14, 2006
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Mmk.

So last set of questions:

-Those 6.5" Quarts I posted, is that model good/similar to the Ref's or should I stick with References?

-Would there be a reason other than price to go w/ the 5.25 Ref vs. 6.5 Ref?

-What exactly did you mean about the seal to the door opening earlier?

And thanks again for the help.
 
annoyingrob

annoyingrob

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Jul 5, 2006
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If you don't like the Pioneers, you won't like the Infinity References. Speaker selection is a very personal thing. The fact that you said you thought they sounded very tinny indicates that you don't like the hard-cone tweeters they use. Infinity speakers use the same tweeter design, and will also sound very harsh to you in the high-range frequencies. If you're going to get a new set of speakers, look for something with a soft dome tweeter. It will sound much better to you.

As for an external amplifier, let's put it this way. If the Pioneer speakers don't sound very good to you at lower volume levels on the HU's amp, then they still won't sound good to you with an external amp.

I wouldn't chose a set of door speakers based solely on how low they play. A lower playing midrange will not make up for the lack of a subwoofer, no matter what you do to it. All you're going to do is distort your midrange more and more.

Whatever speakers you get, I would suggest that you don't make them play any lower the about 80hz. Any lower then that, and all you're going to be doing is causing excessive cone movement, distorting your midrange.
 
I

iwannadie

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Jul 28, 2006
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i have some Cheap sony xplodes in my doors, 5x9. took some work to make it fit and redo the door panel. but hey its loud and cheap and looks ok.

loose the stock speaker pods and make your own ;)
 
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