pockmarks in decked block?

[legolyle]

well, I just got my block back after waiting forever for the machine shop to finish. After getting it back, I saw all of these black "pockmarks" on the surface of the deck. All of them in areas where...I have no idea what happened. They did deck the block, but I don't know what is up with these small areas indented in the block.

The block was being prepped for a mhg, I told them it was a titan MLS gasket, and they said they'd take care of it (make sure it got the right RA), and they said they decked it 7/1000"

there are one or two 'big' pockmarked areas on the block, and around almost every cooling jacket, there appears to be small indents and pockmarks that indicate the block was excessively worn there or something.

this is my first rebuild guys, so please help me out here lol, I've been tried finding info on this on the internet but cant seem to find anything on it, so take a look:

The flash seemed to really make the marks hard to see, but the last picture really shows them, around the farthest cooling jacket to the left-the black marks.


Is this normal? Should I worry, or am I good to go?

Thanks for the help guys.


edit: I can take any pictures you guy may desire, hopefully in the daylight tomorrow as well....

 

[IJ.]

They're corrosion marks from electrolysis between the Iron Deck the Copper HG Rings and the AL head...

Personally I wouldn't use it in that condition for a performance build.

7M Head and Deck needs to be 100% perfect, anything else is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Poodles]

Also, what's with the weird discoloration at the top of the bores?

 

[legolyle]

hmm, well its NA...and it was going to stay that way for a while, but I had plans to go NA-T in the future, damn. Really not what I wanted to hear, so why in the hell would the machine shop not mention this too me...I just spent several hundred dollars on this block.


What would you say say the chances of this block blowing a head gasket are if I just finish rebuilding it NA, and then go NA-T in the future? pretty high? If so, I will likely just....find another motor I guess >.>

This sucks.

 

[IJ.]

Just get them to take another 5>10 off whatever it takes then adjust it with a head gasket.

 

[legolyle]

Just went outside to check those out hoping it was a reflection..but nope. I didn't notice this since I've only had it on the stand for like 30minutes, but it does appear at the top of the bore they appear to be sort of convex-ed outward on some....and the honing didn't get to them..that's why they are brown...I think.

I personally don't know if that's against tsrm req's, I do know that you have to check the whole bore for straightness and all, but the tops of the bores I'm not to sure about. I'm going to go look at it see if it says anything about that.

---------- Post added at 01:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 AM ----------

alright well thanks a bunch for the input guys, ill bring it back to em and get them to take a bit more off, now I gotta sell my head gasket lol.

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

The honing on the cylinders doesn't look good, and yes they are suppose to check the bores all the way down. Looks like the just did a quick job on them.

The bores should be checked and if necessary bored out to take care of that.

 

[Typhoon]

To be honest, looking at that "machine work" I'd go elsewhere and get it decked again and have them check the bores. It would've taken them two minutes to call you, advise it needed another cut and make it happen whilst still on the machine. I've done nicer honing in my shed with a power drill......

 

[legolyle]

well, I'm going in tomorrow with it, Ill bring that up with them...I agree with you on the bores, however I surely hope it doesn't need to be bored, but whatever needs to be done will be done. As of right now, I can say I am very dissatisfied, hearing your guys' opinions on this and all, it took them 3 whole weeks to get this back to me, and now I have to bring it right back...


I'm curious about the honing though, what exactly is wrong with it? How can you tell it isn't very good?
Ill also let them know about that and try and get them to do something about it.

Thing is, I already payed them, so if I can get them to make it all right then I'll do that...if not i guess I'll just go elsewhere and put up a "no-go" for them on the forum here.

 

[Devin LeBlanc]

Looks like they didn't take enough off the deck to get the surface right.

Heres one I recently did and this is how yours should come out. EDIT: I hope you got the front cover machined too. It needs to be bolted on the motor when the deck the block otherwise the HG won't seal in the front because the head won't be sitting on the block.

 

[IJ.]

well, I'm going in tomorrow with it, Ill bring that up with them...I agree with you on the bores, however I surely hope it doesn't need to be bored, but whatever needs to be done will be done. As of right now, I can say I am very dissatisfied, hearing your guys' opinions on this and all, it took them 3 whole weeks to get this back to me, and now I have to bring it right back...


I'm curious about the honing though, what exactly is wrong with it? How can you tell it isn't very good?
Ill also let them know about that and try and get them to do something about it.

Thing is, I already payed them, so if I can get them to make it all right then I'll do that...if not i guess I'll just go elsewhere and put up a "no-go" for them on the forum here.

It "should" be perfectly uniform top to bottom, looks to be some lows left and maybe someone has yanked the stones out towards the end of the last pass.

Also it should have had the Timing Tensioner torqued in place before honing.

 

[Devin LeBlanc]

Thanks for adding that IJ.

 

[legolyle]

hm, alright, thanks for the pic.I would have never even payed for it but I wasn't the one who picked it up...I was at work :/ Learned my lesson there...Hopefully CORRECTLY honing it will remove the brown areas at the tops, thanks for that bit of info IJ.

As for the timing tensioner, I had no idea you had to have THAT in place too, I gave them the timing cover and stuff, but not the timing tensioner. How much of a difference does that make? Ill give it to them this time around, but there's not much else I can do about it now...what are the consequence of not having it in place?

 

[CyFi6]

I noticed on one of my stock bore blocks that the top of the bore was pretty heavily chamfered, maybe that's why the top of his bores were not touched by the hone?

 

[IJ.]

hm, alright, thanks for the pic.I would have never even payed for it but I wasn't the one who picked it up...I was at work :/ Learned my lesson there...Hopefully CORRECTLY honing it will remove the brown areas at the tops, thanks for that bit of info IJ.

As for the timing tensioner, I had no idea you had to have THAT in place too, I gave them the timing cover and stuff, but not the timing tensioner. How much of a difference does that make? Ill give it to them this time around, but there's not much else I can do about it now...what are the consequence of not having it in place?

Pulls #1 cylinder half a thou when torqued correctly to 36 ft/lbs, much more when over tightened which is easy as it's a 14mm fine pitch bolt.

 

[Devin LeBlanc]

yep, Needs to be torqued properly before bore/honing it, as IJ stated it will pull cyl #1 out of round.

 

[legolyle]

Dropped it off this morning, owner wasn't too pleased to have a 19 year old arguing with him. He took it though, said he would do it, but when I told him this engine was a bit different because of its HG issues and the necessity of proper prepping, he said, and I quote:

"I've been building fucking engines my entire life, the head gasket seals around the bores-don't come back asking me to cut the tops of the pistons off" I even told him that people that had been building these engines for much of their lives told me it had to be totally clean-and he said something along the lines of: "I've been building engines longer than you've been alive"

I cant tell you how much people that pull that card make me want to punch them in the face.

As for the bores, the guy said that was just wear, and that you could hone it but it would just widen the bores at the top and there was no point in honing it. TBH I agree with him there, (that is if it is wear).

but thanks for the help guys, Ill be getting it back this afternoon, and hopefully getting a new head gasket from titan soon, and actually finishing the build.

overall, the guy and the shop were nice-fair pricing, but I didn't appreciate the know it all attitude at the end.

Just for info's sake, this place is in Jacksonville, Fl. Tachyon automotive.

 

[CyFi6]

Typical machine shop... You pay them to get work that you want done, but when you tell them how you want it done they take it as an insult to their knowledge. I have run into this issue myself. I haven't found a place yet that would take kindly to specific instructions. Sounds like he doesn't understand that you will be using a thicker gasket to compensate for removed material either.

 

[legolyle]

yeah, tbh, after he made the comment about the pistons, I told him I'd be using a MHG with a greater thickness to compensate, and he didn't say anything after that...just went and got his dolly to wheel it inside lol.

 

[legolyle]

alright heard back from the shop, going to get the block today, they ended up taking a total off of 20/1000, so now that's a total of 27/1000. So approx. .686 mm, added to 1.37 for stock HG = 2.056 mm needed. So I'll be okay with a 2mm HG right? Think that'll be close enough? Thanks for your help again guys!