ohms. can i change them??

FullNelson

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Well i baught my subs (2 kicker 10" L5's) and an amp. The kickers are dvc 2 ohm, and have been wired together aat 2 ohms. the amp is a 2 channel, and bridgeable to 4 ohms stable. so right now i have the subs hooked up only on one channel to prevent over loading.....

Is there anyway to wire the subs either individually to a 2 ohm load and run them per channel, or wire them to a 4 ohm load so i can run them bridged?
 

Dan_Gyoba

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2 Ohm DVC can be configured in parallel for 1 ohm, or series for 4 ohms.

If you want to use 2 subs, then your best bet is to wire each one in series for a 4 ohm load, then wire one to each channel on your amp. This is the only way that your amp will be stable with these subs.

Wiring a single sub with 1 voice coil per channel will give you the same overall power output, but at higher distortion. Assuming that the sub is capable of handling the total power output properly, the actual dB level would be the same.

Basically though with the equipment that you have, those are the options.

While it would be possible to put in a "dummy load" of a 2 ohm resistor in series with your subs, this would simply be wasted power, and you'd be better off with either running the single sub to 2 channels, or the pair of them at 1 channel each.

It would also be possible to wire only 1 voice coil on each sub, however, this stresses the power handling of the voice coil, so this should only be done if the power handling on the sub is at least twice what the amplifier will be putting out. This will work for either 1 sub per channel, or the 2 subs in series to the amplifier, bridged. (Both methods will produce the same overall power.)
 

GrimJack

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I would probably wire the system up for 2 ohms mono and set the volume lower than normal... and keep checking the temperature on the amp. If it gets hot, turn down the gain on the amp some more.

However, I'm old, and rarely play my system anywhere near full on anymore. If you're young and foolish, (or lacking in willpower) set it for 4 ohms stereo or 8 ohms mono.
 

FullNelson

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i can control myself. but also i am unaware of the reprocussions of running the amp at half its rated minimum ohms. will it just overheat from the lack of resistance? the amp has a overheat shut down safty...i have allready ran it like that out of ignorance when first installing it all, and it seemed fine, just a little hot. no distortion or anything really.
 

GrimJack

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Years ago, when I was into car stereos, the only real difference between a 4 ohm stable amp and a 1 ohm stable amp was better cooling and different marketing materials.

I haven't kept up on the field, so things may well have changed since then, but I seriously doubt it can hurt to wire it in 2 ohm mode, and if it shuts down from heat, just change it to 8 ohm mode.

I've never seen an amp do anything when overloaded, at least not in the sound quality department. I've run them hot enough to melt all the solder on the mainboard. Then all the components fell out, the amp stopped working, and when it cooled down enough to pick up, it sounded like a baby rattle. I've had one or more channels just stop working. That's about it.
 

romaniello

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Except that when they are rated at 4 ohms mono, it usually means they output more power at 4 ohms than 2 ohms. They are not designed the same as old amps that doubled in power every time the impedance was halved.

FN; you can run it at 2 ohms if you want, and it will work fine forever provided the amp has appropriate ventilation, but you might not be getting the best out of it. If it was me wiring this system, I would do it using the first wiring suggestion from your first responsonse (Dan_Gyoba's).
 

pbasil1

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romaniello;942990 said:
Except that when they are rated at 4 ohms mono, it usually means they output more power at 4 ohms than 2 ohms. They are not designed the same as old amps that doubled in power every time the impedance was halved.

FN; you can run it at 2 ohms if you want, and it will work fine forever provided the amp has appropriate ventilation, but you might not be getting the best out of it. If it was me wiring this system, I would do it using the first wiring suggestion from your first responsonse (Dan_Gyoba's).

Thats completely wrong. Your amp does more than just run hot when you run it at too low an impedance. You will risk blowing the amp if you choose to do this...
 

romaniello

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With proper ventilation, at nominal volume levels, it can run forever if wired at 2ohms when it is only rated for 4ohms operation.
Put it on a test bench, try it.
 

Dan_Gyoba

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Running at too low an impedance will be a problem for the power supply. It will certainly TRY to run with more power, but what WILL happen is that the SMPS in the amplifier will top out. The amp will try to demand more power, but what will happen instead is the power supply voltage will droop. Generally the fuses will go before the amp does, if the fuses are well matched to the power supplies actual capability, though now a lot of people have clued in and check the fuse ratings on their amps for a real idea of how much power the amp will take, so many manufacturers are putting in overspec fuses, with the result that the switching transistors in the amp power supply will be in serious danger.

If you can keep the amp cool enough, the transistor can handle more power, transistors are rated for an amount of power at a certain temperature, and are derated as they get hotter.

The problem is that most newer amps aren't using regular transistors in the PSUs anymore. They're using MOSFETs, which derate in a completely differnet manner. Unlike transistors, MOSFETs have to get very hot before they start to derate signifigantly, so the manufacturers don't overspec the devices nearly as much. The devices are desirable because it is much harder to get thermal runaway with them (Where they get hot because they're hot.) Some say it's "impossible" though it isn't -- it's just far more difficult.

The problem though is that with these devices that aren't as overspec, if yoiu try to draw too much power through it, cool or not, it'll just fail. Then you've got no power supply, you've got no amplifier.
 

FullNelson

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the amp it self has 3 35amp fuse. 105 amp intake. and i have wired the power cord for an 80 amp fuse. so if if the amp trys to draw enough the voltage for the 2ohms, it should blow the power wire fuse first right? before the amp melts

on another note, what are some of the tricks you guys have seen, or used,to keep amps just a little bit cooler? maybe mount the amp on the wall infront of the enclosure port? everytime the drivers hit, it would blow cooler air around it?
 

Fuzz420

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FullNelson;942852 said:
i can control myself. but also i am unaware of the reprocussions of running the amp at half its rated minimum ohms. will it just overheat from the lack of resistance? the amp has a overheat shut down safty...i have allready ran it like that out of ignorance when first installing it all, and it seemed fine, just a little hot. no distortion or anything really.

you will run into possible over heating and the amp cuts off, or clipping of the amp under full load.(or even partial)
 

FullNelson

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ive never experienced amp clipping. if it starts to clip the signal, would there be any time to turn it down and stop the clipping, or is it something that once it happens, by the time i see it, it will be to late? like detonation? the amp i have can at most put 600 watts to each speaker. the peak power handling for the speakers are 900watts, shouldnt the speakers be allright from damage when/if clipping happens for a second?
 

GrimJack

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Most speakers can take some clipping before they die. Mine have taken lots in their 20 year lifetime, and they still work fine.

Clipping also doesn't care what your power rating is on the speakers. Here is a good graph that explains clipping:

clip.gif


Clipping happens when your AMP runs out of power, and unfortunately it means your speaker is uncontrolled at the extremes of it's movement. Not a good situation to be in. Sounds terrible, too.
 

FullNelson

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what about controlling it with gain. so far i ran the subs and amp like tis and there was no clipping. but should it happen would i be able to tune the gain down untill the clipping is gone? or is this only solved with the volume knob?
 

romaniello

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Dan_Gyoba;943218 said:
...though now a lot of people have clued in and check the fuse ratings on their amps for a real idea of how much power the amp will take, so many manufacturers are putting in overspec fuses, with the result that the switching transistors in the amp power supply will be in serious danger.

On the same subject; how many times have you seen the excited user that has an amplified 1/2 din in-dash equalizer with a 20 amp fuse on the back; and believes he/she is 'pushing' 240 watts because 20 amps X 12 volts = 240 watts

I usually don't respond to them and let them be happy.
 

romaniello

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FullNelson;943286 said:
the amp it self has 3 35amp fuse. 105 amp intake. and i have wired the power cord for an 80 amp fuse. so if if the amp trys to draw enough the voltage for the 2ohms, it should blow the power wire fuse first right? before the amp melts

Seems to me your amplifier is powerful enough to make those subs pound happily at 4ohms.

Where are you putting that 80 amp fuse? Close to the battery? That fuse is there not to protect your amplifier but to protect your car's electrical system - a small misunderstanding on its purpose.
 

Dan_Gyoba

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Exactly. The amplifier fuses are supposed to be there to protect the amp. The power line fuse is there to protect your car.

When I was competing, this had to be within 12" of the battery terminal.

And yeah, I've known a lot of people who have told me how much power they have based on the fuse value. Most of them I leave alone, but the occasional one who has asked, I've let them listen to my system, which was "only 280W total" based on my 40X4 and 60X2 amps.

Anyway, I still think that the best solution is probably to wire only 1 voice coil from each sub, leave the other one un-wired. This will get the maximum safe power from your amplifier.
 

GrimJack

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Well, the fuse is a decent indication if they are blowing it all the time! ;)

My system is awfully similar - only 350W total. Of course, my amps are from the days where they were hugely underrated for competition.