No AC System Low?

[landtoy80]

Last year the ac worked but was not as cold as it should of been.
I just tried it now and it doesn't work, compressor doesn't kick on.
I checked to see if there was still R12 in the system and there is still pressure at the valve. I assume if there was a leak, there would be no pressure.
Is it normal for an old car to lose its R12 over time?
Is all I need is a can of R12?
Should I take it to a AC shop or do it my self?

 

[SupraMan1987]

It's normal for R12 cars to loose refrigerant. I'm hoping you didn't just hit the service port? Thats a big no-no, punishible by at least a 10K fine shuld the EPA find out. Take it to an AC shop, as unless you have a license you can't buy R12.

 

[sneakypete]

take it to a shop and get the system evacuated. then go to a local auto part store and get a can or two of the AC recharge stuff. ive gotten the system charged a few times and its a waste of money since i had to do it every year.

 

[tissimo]

It's normal for R12 cars to loose refrigerant.

No, its not normal.

 

[Piratetip]

Mine must be abnormal then. R12 full, AC cold still.

 

[hvyman]

get a friend to turn a/c on and off while the engine is running and look at the compressor to make sure the clutch is activating. if it is take it to a shop if not replace the compressor then take it to a shop to get recharged.

 

[SupraMan1987]

No, its not normal.

I'm not going to get in a pissing match, but until the tree huggers got involved the auto industry was allowed to vent so much refrigerant per year to the atmosphere under EPA guidelines. And if memory serves me correctly, it is around a pound, not a small number when I'd bet our Supras take less than 2 pounds of refrigerant. A lot of manufacturers took advantage of this as well, as when the AC quit they were hoping you would take it to the dealer for a recharge, which many people did. I can't speak for if toyota did this, but it was a common practice up until the 134 switch over.

 

[landtoy80]

Went to a shop and they want $350+ just to start just looking at it. Took it to a nondealer Toyota shop and he said it leaks out over time and most likely it will only need just ounces of R12. He said I might need oil too.

I found some R12 gauges and a place that sell R12 (its not illegal to buy R12 without a permit).
I just need to know how to tell if I need oil and how much to add?

 

[dumbo]

I paid 50$ at crappy tire for a kit that had 2 bottles of Dura-Cool, gauges and fittings. I put both cans in(was a little more than what it takes) and AC worked awesome last summer, havenèt checked this year yet. It is posted on a little yellow sticker in front of the rad I belive.

EDIT: Im pretty sure your not allowed to sell R12 to any random person. You sure its not a non-hydrocarbon based refrigerant...like Dura-Cool.

 

[SupraMan1987]

It IS illegal to buy or posess R12 without an EPA permit. They will tear you to pieces if they find out you tried to service your own stuff. And that shit is COLD. It makes R134 look like lava when it gets on your skin. Take it to someone that knows what they are doing, especially if you have to come on an internet based forum to ask about something that sensitive to screwing up.

 

[jetjock]

^ The only guy who appears to know what he's talking about.

1) It's completely normal for older R12 systems to lose refrigerant over time.

2) It's a violation of federal law to sell R12 to any person not holding EPA 609 certification. The sole exception is for resale and the buyer must sign a statement to that effect.

3) Duracool is an HC refrigerant. Methane and propane based to be exact. It's not on the EPA's SNAP list of acceptable alternatives. It *is* on the list of unacceptable alternatives however and is therefore illegal in the USA for MVAC use. Why? Because HC refrigerants can be dangerous.

4) There are many ways to make a sick AC system work again on the cheap. Every one of them is likely to result in expensive repairs down the road. Much more expensive than if the work had been done right to begin with.

OP: MVAC work requires specialized tools and knowledge you clearly don't possess. Furthermore you don't even know if your clutch failure to energize is the result of the low pressure cutout due to low charge. It could be any number of other things not related to the refrigeration system. Take SupraMan's advice: go to a shop. Besides, if you do anything other than R12 or convert to 134 no shop will touch the car in the future...

 

[dumbo]

Weird, is it illegal in Canada too, jetjock, because they sell it at most auto parts stores up here. And because they sold it to anyone, my buddy(HVAC something or other) told me its prolly NON-HC based, I guess I was wrong.

 

[landtoy80]

Ordered and got 2 cans of R12, can of oil and set of used gauges. Went to check pressure and :cry: the last owner converted to R134a. Threw a can of R134a and a can of oil and it works.

Can I go convert back to R12? How do I get the oil out? What do I change?

 

[Angry7M]

Ordered and got 2 cans of R12, can of oil and set of used gauges. Went to check pressure and :cry: the last owner converted to R134a. Threw a can of R134a and a can of oil and it works.

Can I go convert back to R12? How do I get the oil out? What do I change?

If its working fine right now. Why would you change it back to R12? :nono:

And first of all you would need to take it to a shop so they can extract all the R134a refrigerant out of your A/C system. $$$

 

[landtoy80]

The ac doesn't work well when it get in the 90's+ range.
It could of been that last year the R134a was low and that was the problem.
I read that R12 is cooler in a R12 system than a R134a in a R12 system but the info could be wrong.
I think this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-AIR-VENTURI-TYPE-VACUUM-PUMP-R134A-R12-CONNECTOR-AC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a570Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem230332355635QQitemZ230332355635QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools#ebayphotohosting
New Air Venturi Type Pump should get the R134a and moisture out but I don't know if it would get rid of the oil? And would I have to change out the dryer?

Before I go to that much trouble, I will see how the R134a works.

 

[Orion ZyGarian]

If an A/C system is overfilled, it will actually not work as well as if it was filled the right amount. The opposite is true as well; if its underfilled, it'll actually blow slightly cooler (as long as the evaporator doesnt freeze).

R12 is more convenient in that for every pound of pressure increased, it goes up in temperature one degree Fahrenheit. R134a isnt quite as linear, but is "more environmentally friendly," or whatever DuPont's patent renewal thing claims of it.

I've heard the replacement for R134a will possibly just be nitrogen or CO2, so you could atmospheric purge freely (though not as much with CO2 because of the global warming claims).

A/C systems WILL leak over time, just in incredibly small amounts. With pressures that high, its just extremely difficult to keep it contained forever. The rubber O-ring seals will give out with age. If you can notice a leak, then there is something wrong with keeping the system sealed..the "natural" leak of refrigerant is so minuscule that it will take a decade or two to make a noticeable impact on A/C.