NEW GASKET AVALIBLE FOR 7M!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter quake
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Are you guys serious? :nono:
I doubt you'd be able to measure a difference on a dyno it would be well within the +-.
I doubt you'd be able to measure a difference on a dyno it would be well within the +-.
You're right - it's not a matter of power - it IS a matter of utmost reliability, though!
Proper quench is the difference between running the ragged edge of detonation, or having that comfortable 'buffer' allowing you the ability to run more power, reliably, than the guy over in the other lane.
Proper quench is the difference between running the ragged edge of detonation, or having that comfortable 'buffer' allowing you the ability to run more power, reliably, than the guy over in the other lane.
If the top of the bore is chamfered and the Head has had the edge of the CC done it shouldn't be a detonation issue (basic motor prep)
Work out the increase in volume it's miniscule 1mm x 2mm x 84mm id and 86mm od...
Repeat after me "It's NOT a class race car I don't need to obsess over minute detail"
Work out the increase in volume it's miniscule 1mm x 2mm x 84mm id and 86mm od...
Repeat after me "It's NOT a class race car I don't need to obsess over minute detail"
Those are both pretty big IFs - you gotta realize, the work you do vs what the rest of us in the world get from our shops, is two different things.
I seriously doubt more than 10% of the people running 86mm head gaskets have chamfered the bore or head. That's a sharp, flat space just waiting to cause hell in the chamber.
My old buddy Murphy says that it will happen when I'm the furthest away from anyone else, too
That obsession over every single detail might seem overkill - but overkill is generally how I engineer things. I dislike mechanical failures
I seriously doubt more than 10% of the people running 86mm head gaskets have chamfered the bore or head. That's a sharp, flat space just waiting to cause hell in the chamber.
My old buddy Murphy says that it will happen when I'm the furthest away from anyone else, too
That obsession over every single detail might seem overkill - but overkill is generally how I engineer things. I dislike mechanical failures
You're obsessed with detail, and you dislike mechanical failures.
Why in god's name are you building a 7m then? :biglaugh:
Why in god's name are you building a 7m then? :biglaugh:
I agree, and anyhow, wouldn't 86mm create a greater quench area anyhow?IJ. said:If the top of the bore is chamfered and the Head has had the edge of the CC done it shouldn't be a detonation issue (basic motor prep)
Work out the increase in volume it's miniscule 1mm x 2mm x 84mm id and 86mm od...
Repeat after me "It's NOT a class race car I don't need to obsess over minute detail"
Just to put your fears at rest I have already run 21psi on pump gas on my 7m with 83.75 mm bore cylinders (slight chamfer at the top) and an 86mm headgasket, with no signs of pinging or detonation. Over the last few years I did about 60 dyno pulls at 17-18psi and higher and with the same engine on pump gas. The engine had 4 different turbos and several different fuel management setups all tuned on it (read: frequent abuse) with a 86mm bore headgasket.
I ran 30 psi/8300rpm hard last year with 83.5+86 bore Stopper with no ill effects even when it closed an end gap after leaning out.
LOL!
@ Aaron - *any* motor can be built to last, if the proper care and diligence is used. You half ass something, and it will come back to haunt you!
@ Ian - I'm not saying that it won't run, and run fine with the proper tune! I'm only saying it's little details like that, that add up to create that 'buffer' allowing a little more leeway with extra reliability. If I'm in there, why shouldn't I run the proper sized gasket?
@ Aaron - *any* motor can be built to last, if the proper care and diligence is used. You half ass something, and it will come back to haunt you!
@ Ian - I'm not saying that it won't run, and run fine with the proper tune! I'm only saying it's little details like that, that add up to create that 'buffer' allowing a little more leeway with extra reliability. If I'm in there, why shouldn't I run the proper sized gasket?
Dow: As I stated they don't do the Stopper in anything BUT the 86mm bore and I've popped too many of the plain MHG's in development to bother using one again the Stopper is just extra insurance.
You seem to have some idea that this is the holy grail of engine building when it reality it doesn't appear to have any negative effects at all, on a plain MLS yes it's a bad idea as the area between cylinders is very thin but on the Stopper with the extra layer wrapped this is a non issue.
If it was going to blow it would have in the minor disaster last year.
I can only post from personal experience having built a few motors over the years and not what I've read or heard word of mouth.
You seem to have some idea that this is the holy grail of engine building when it reality it doesn't appear to have any negative effects at all, on a plain MLS yes it's a bad idea as the area between cylinders is very thin but on the Stopper with the extra layer wrapped this is a non issue.
If it was going to blow it would have in the minor disaster last year.
I can only post from personal experience having built a few motors over the years and not what I've read or heard word of mouth.
IJ. said:
Ohhh... I think I see what's going on here! I'm not trying to come across as OMG YOU NEED YOUR QUENCH CORRECT OR ELSE - I'm only stating the quench issue, as it's one of those places that I think of as easily 'shortcutted' around.
It's no reflection on the actual issue at hand (quench), just on my work ethics
I do everything I can when I build a motor, to ensure every single thing works together smoothly. Some refer to me as 'anal' whenever I engineer something I figure it's better to be that way, rather than the opposite end of the spectrum, of short cutting things. If you think I'm crazy about the quench, wait till you see me on the bottom end! :evil2:
These gaskets are not on the market yet. I recieved an e-mail from Steve Norr this morning on the progress of the ICS (Internal Combustion Seal) type headgasket and it's not looking so good. Not enough material between the bores to properly make a seal, but they are still trying. Below is from their web page on how the ICS gaskets work. If they can get one on the market, it would be a great thing work the 7M Series.sponsored1 said:
http://www.scegaskets.com/products/ics.html
Lance: Same reason I hesitated to O-Ring a 7M as this is how I've done Turbo motors in the past.
IJ. said:
I hear you IJ, my gt40p heads on the stang are oringed... Its bloody overkill for what I do, but the heads were actually built for nitrous and my piston choice was an accident(my old man wanted NA, no boost, no juice)... On the stang boards, I havnt seen a failure when the heads are oringed for the special HG(the 5.0 block will crack down the center before you will have enough power to blow the HG! :naughty: )
Rajunz said:
They have been available for a while now, i used them when they first came out, about 2 years ago. They just don't exist for 7m's, but i've used them for two b-series honda motors. They worked terrible, and after talking with other shops, everyone was having the same experiences i had. SCE will tell you no one is having any problems when you talk to them but this is not the case. IMO O-rings should only be used with reciever grooves. The internal o-rings never fully compress and they leave a small gap directly around the fire ring. On motors where coolant passages are farther away from the ring, you might be ok, but when the coolant passages are relatively close your gonna have leaking issues. Metal shim gaskets work fine if you do it correctly. Everyone is making these out to be the holy grail of gaskets, but i think in time you'll see that everything comes with a price.