New Castrol Edge

Marotta1

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So I am wondering if the new Castrol Edge they are now selling in the black bottles in place of what was once Syntec is any different. Anyone have any info on this.

Is it just Syntec renamed? Is it anything compared to the German Castrol? I'm not talking about the British Castrol Edge in the gold bottles here.
 

Marotta1

Supreme Lurker
Sorry if it was asked already, but I am not sure we're referring to the same oil here. I had not seen that thread you listed, but it is quite old now. I am referring to Castrol Edge in the black bottles that has been apparently renamed from Syntec (old) to Edge (new). The bottles look pretty much the same but now just say Edge on them. Again, just to clarify, not the Edge in the Gold bottles. I have not seen this stuff before a few weeks ago. I may have missed it though, because we don't get the latest greatest stuff too quickly here.
 

jdub

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If it's labeled "Edge", it's the same oil as in that thread (in the USA). Castrol has changed labels at least 3 times on German Castrol...it's always said "European Formula" on the front and "Made in Germany" on the back. Edge is just probably going through the same type marketing changes. The oil is the same. If you think it's different, do the research and post the results here (with pics).
 

midnight_mk3

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I just saw the new castrol today too (late).

photo0166h.jpg


The original one says something like "superior European formula blended in the U.s." on the back. But I believe the new one doesn't. Any difference in this stuff?
 

jdub

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I was just at Autozone today - looks like they have re-branded all the Syntec oils to "Edge". The exception is German Castrol - it is still a Syntec.
 

midnight_mk3

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by German castrol do you mean the 0W 30 synthetic?
because i remember in a previous thread you mentioned that the 5W 40 I use is also a German formula.
Lol i got freaked out because I could only find one bottle of the old syntec on the shelves.
 

jdub

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There is only "one" German Castrol - it only comes in 0W-30 and it says "made in Germany" on the rear label.
 

midnight_mk3

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Oh isee.

i was referring to this quote:

"I'd use German Castrol 0W-30 (European Formula, says made in Germany on the back label). It's the only true synthetic (Grp IV PAO) Castrol sells in the US - that includes the 5W-40 you are referring to. It's viscosity hot is very close to a 40W."

from this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?140862-5w40-synthetic-for-a-1J

but i see what you mean the back of the bottle doesn't say made in Germany.
 

jdub

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I can see how you would misunderstand ;)
I was saying that GC was the only true syn oil (a Grp IV PAO) Castrol sells in the US and that GC's viscosity is close to a 40W hot. All other Syntec oils (all Edge oils now) are Grp III hydrocracked oils - that includes the 5W-40 version.
 

supradjza80

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jdub;1756799 said:
I can see how you would misunderstand ;)
I was saying that GC was the only true syn oil (a Grp IV PAO) Castrol sells in the US and that GC's viscosity is close to a 40W hot. All other Syntec oils (all Edge oils now) are Grp III hydrocracked oils - that includes the 5W-40 version.

Jdub - Can you point me to where in the Castrol Documentation it shows that the euro 0w-30 is a grp iv pao vs the other castrol oils? I have looked and do not see where the distinction is made, whether it is on the PDS or the MSDS.

Thanks!
 

jdub

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caballo;1816613 said:
Does the German Castrol really contain 20% synthetic oil, jdub?

Ummm - GC is a PAO based oil - that means it is a true synthetic (Grp IV). It requires very little viscosity modifiers to stay in grade.


supradjza80;1816822 said:
So as they change formulations etc. it is entirely possible for the oil to no longer be a PAO based unless someone runs this test with each formulation change.

Except when you consider European law (unlike the USA) requires oil that is labeled "synthetic" to be Grp IV or V. That means PAO or ester.
Not sure what your point is here?
 

supradjza80

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My point is that we do not know 100% for sure that the current GC is PAO based. Unless I am mis-understanding something it is possible that they have changed it to a non PAO oil. The oil is not being sold in Germany so they can call it a synthetic and be a Grp III as you know for US consumption.

For some background the main reason I asked how you knew this fact was so I could see if any other oil manufacturers or Castrol had expanded into using grp 4 base stock in other oils out of curiousity. I don't see how you could gurantee that the oil is PAO based still with all the reformulations that Castrol has supposedly been doing unless someone is running these tests often on the oil.

Also I will no longer tell people who ask me about oil if it is PAO based unless I have some factual information to back it up. Irregardless it is a great oil without at doubt and what I use in all 3 of my cars.
 

jdub

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supradjza80;1817084 said:
My point is that we do not know 100% for sure that the current GC is PAO based. Unless I am mis-understanding something it is possible that they have changed it to a non PAO oil. The oil is not being sold in Germany so they can call it a synthetic and be a Grp III as you know for US consumption.

For some background the main reason I asked how you knew this fact was so I could see if any other oil manufacturers or Castrol had expanded into using grp 4 base stock in other oils out of curiousity. I don't see how you could gurantee that the oil is PAO based still with all the reformulations that Castrol has supposedly been doing unless someone is running these tests often on the oil.

Also I will no longer tell people who ask me about oil if it is PAO based unless I have some factual information to back it up. Irregardless it is a great oil without at doubt and what I use in all 3 of my cars.

Anything is possible, but I have not seen or read anything that says it is not currently a PAO - therefore, I am not going to speculate that it has changed when I have zero reason to believe that it has. The fact that is made in Germany makes it subject to European marketing law and it is sold there.

Most of the "reformulations" are really name changes - a marketing ploy. It's happened before in the Castrol line, as well as other oils. One has remained constant though, German Castrol - easily ID'ed by the "made in Germany" on the back.

I feel very comfortable with my facts - believe what you wish.
 

supradjza80

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I just don't like to tell people something as FACT when I have no real information to back it up. I think it opens the door for you to look like an arrogant idiot if proved wrong which I try to prevent. Likely it is still a PAO oil and obviously it is just as good as always based on the Product data Sheet numbers.

One other question I have for you is the HTHS test results on this oil. I would expect this oil to perform a lot better in this test, 2.9 Cst is pretty low giving the oils Viscosity Index. Any thoughts on if this is an accurate number on the data sheet?
 

jdub

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supradjza80;1817248 said:
I just don't like to tell people something as FACT when I have no real information to back it up. I think it opens the door for you to look like an arrogant idiot if proved wrong which I try to prevent. Likely it is still a PAO oil and obviously it is just as good as always based on the Product data Sheet numbers.

One other question I have for you is the HTHS test results on this oil. I would expect this oil to perform a lot better in this test, 2.9 Cst is pretty low giving the oils Viscosity Index. Any thoughts on if this is an accurate number on the data sheet?


Like I said, I am very comfortable with my information. If you would like to prove me as an "arrogant idiot", please feel free to do so ;)

Concerning HTHS (High Temperature, High Shear) - that test has to be taken in context for a specific oil. Some background:
- 100ºC viscosity is measured in centistokes (cSt) and represents the kinematic viscosity of the oil.
- HTHS viscosity is measure in centipoise (cP) and represents the dynamic viscosity or (more accurate) absolute viscosity of the oil. It is measured at 150ºC.

What we are looking at comparing the two is oil density vs shear stability at different temperatures. You can compare the cSt vs cP for two different oils with the same viscosity range, but never compare cSt to cP - they are apples to oranges. You can think of "cSt @ 100ºC" as resistance to flow through engine oil passages and "HTHS @ 150ºC." as resistance to flow between surfaces with a very small clearance (i.e. bearings, rings, etc). HTHS more closely approximates actual stress an oil encounters in a working engine than kinematic viscosity, but what we are really concerned with is does HTHS viscosity change (decreases) over time due to shear. So, looking at HTHS on a data sheet does not give the complete picture.

Higher HTHS is not necessarily better, it's only higher. Higher kinematic viscosity also isn't better, it's only higher. Higher HTHS means more viscous drag (power loss, more heat, lower fuel efficiency) - higher kinematic viscosity means more resistance to flow through the engine and generally will result in a higher HTHS through the bearings. So, you should choose the lowest HTHS that still provides the best protection for a specific engine - "better" depends on the engine that it's used in. It is worthwhile to compare kinematic to dynamic viscosity to get an idea of the shear stability for the oil.

Shear comes in two flavors:
- Temporary shear occurs when oil is under stress - the oil actually squishes/thins under compression, but recovers when stress is released.
- Permanent shear occurs when long-chain molecules in oil are actually cut and the oil permanently thins.

Shear stability refers to permanent shear. Multigrade oils with a wide viscosity range and high viscosity index (like a 15W-50) are more prone to permanent shear due to extensive use of viscosity improvers. You may find an oil with a high HSTS that actually shears more than an oil with a lower HSTS. It depends on the specific engine - you want an oil that meets minimum HSTS requirements and retains HSTS viscosity over time. The question is how to do this? A very simple way is to compare the relationship of kinematic viscosity @ 100ºC, divided by HT/HS viscosity @ 150ºC. Generally, the lower the ratio, the more shear stable the oil is. Take this as a rule of thumb - a kind of "blind" predictor ;)