need advice on cams for 89 turbo auto

[JCFsupraman]

Wondering if anyone can help me out. I'm thinking of getting camshafts installed just not sure if its worth it, if it is what brand, how much hp would it add, what else would need to be added or done besided the camshafts. What should it cost.

I have a full list of current mods in the mods listing under additional information in the public profile and I was thinking of these

http://www.briancrower.com/makes/toyota/7mgte.shtml

but not sure if the stage 2 is too mellow for my mods and I would need stage 3 or what other mods should I get in order to get stage 3?

Any ideas or input would help. thanks

 

[89Turbo]

first question is why? why do you want new cams? what kind of power are you making? stock cams are good into the 500's for sure, there are many other mods that are better bang for your buck.

 

[Superjustin13]

not trying to be rude but i got some advice, dont make 3 threads.

 

[JCFsupraman]

first question is why? why do you want new cams? what kind of power are you making? stock cams are good into the 500's for sure, there are many other mods that are better bang for your buck.

I'm all ears. Someone told me that cams would add 40-50 hp but I'm open to suggestions. Dynoing next Friday should be in the 450 range.

 

[JCFsupraman]

not trying to be rude but i got some advice, dont make 3 threads.

Not at all. My bad I was editing and used the back key without realizing that that would happen. How can I delete the other two. I tried but didn't see a delete icon or button. Thanks justin

 

[89Turbo]

oh well i dont have much input seeing as i only have 234hp but im sure someone will chime in, i basically asked those questions because i didnt look at your mod list and figured you were some kid makin my numbers and thinkin cams are the best upgrade in the world.

 

[mrnickleye]

I've read many times and places that the N/A Intake cam will do the trick.

 

[shaeff]

I've read many times and places that the N/A Intake cam will do the trick.

the N/A intake cam isn't worth the hastle, in my opinion:

mainly this one:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...highlight=cams

and this one:
http://www.mkiiitech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=156

and many more to back it up:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...highlight=cams

http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...highlight=cams

http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...highlight=cams

http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...highlight=cams

-shaeff

 

[JCFsupraman]

Yeah. NO the car hasn't been stock for a LONG time. From the sounds of it the na cams aren't exactly what I'm looking for. But thanks for the suggestion. The guys at the shop ran the 1/4 mi in the mid to high 11's last time out in their supra and they said that cams was their next upgrade, since it would add atleast 40 hp, right along with a new turbo. They have the engine apart now so its easy for them to do. They are upgrading their turbo to a bigger one. I was going to wait and see but thought I may as well get started on finding out for myself. They have adjustable camgears but thats what 3 - 5 hp at best. Although the blue/purple aem ones are on my eventual mod list along with the clear lexan timing cover. Just the bling factor alone may move that up to 4-6 hp. :naughty:
PS thanks to whoever deleted the reposts. :thumbup:

 

[shaeff]

PS thanks to whoever deleted the reposts.

you're welcome.

-shaeff

 

[yaitsme]

They have the engine apart now so its easy ...

Yeah, right there with ya on that one!

In a nutshell: Nothing is available 'off the shelf' here in the states - and many of us know what an agonizing wait it is for parts ordered out of Japan. The BC cams you mentioned aren't available yet, either - maybe in late September ... and maybe we'll both be back together by then, too.

General consensus around here appears to be: 1mm oversize valves, viton seals/seats (whatever - I'm a newb), quality springs and call it good - no cams required. What I haven't seen addressed is the typically awful cam journals.
Also, the hp gain is negligible compared to other upgrades - thus the disinterest. As I understand it, the benefit of cams is in pushing the power-curve around a little, to better suit your needs. What I haven't taken the time to research yet, is just what those BC cams would do to the power curve. If they'd push a little more bottom-end power, I'd compromise some top end (for my current driving style, anyway). That's the kind of thing to consider when going cam shopping ... and with availibility what it is - you're looking at a custom grind somewhere, more than likely.

Good luck to ya !!

If you learn anything good - give me an update ...

 

[89supturbo]

i'm planning on getting a set of BC stage 3's when they come out, you'll have to upgrade your whole valve train to put a set of them on tho, as far ass power gains you should see a huge gain in power especially if your running alot of boost

 

[shaeff]

there's good power to be made with upgraded cams. while a set of higher lift/longer duration cams might only make an extra 15-20 horsepower on a lightly modified car, if you have a full fuel system, intake system, exhaust, and turbo, chances are, that you'll see more of a gain from the cams when there's more to the equation.

-shaeff

 

[Doward]

Upgrading camshafts... wtf, why does that sound sooo incredibly wrong to me?

Ok, let me try it this way....

Camshaft(s) are NOT something you just 'upgrade'. A well rounded motor will have a camshaft set selected that will amplify the VE of a given motor. The camshafts need to be selected based on intended RPM range, and HP range @ a given positive pressure.

Personally, I'd like to know what our stock cams are... .336/.332" lift isn't all that much, but my experience with OHC engines is limted to the 7M and the A20, as far as 'performance' applications go. My experience with OHV engines, OTOH, is quite a bit more extensive

220/226 @ .050" with a 264/264 SAE, tells me these cams open up hard - even harder, though, on the exhaust side, and stay open a good bit. I could see these cams running a 3.0L I6 to 7200rpm+

Camshafts are not something you should really consider an 'upgrade' - The cylinder head and the camshafts are the HEART of where power is made. Yes, you can throw a bazillion psi of pressure at it, and get more power, but you'll make more power, with more reliability, at less psi, with an appropriately selected camshaft set.

Just .02 here

 

[89supturbo]

when ur trying to boost to say 20psi the stock cams will choke of your engine, exactly as you stated volumetric efficiency. the stock cams will stop making power around 6500 rpms, if you have a built motor you can upgrade your valvtrain and continue to make power well beyond that, not only that but a boosted motors volumetric efficiency will go up when it breaths better

 

[Doward]

Pretty much. You'll make MORE power with the right set of cams. It's not as simple as 'stage 1 and stage 2'

At least with DOHC, you can adjust the effective LSA easily enough

 

[shaeff]

when ur trying to boost to say 20psi the stock cams will choke of your engine, exactly as you stated volumetric efficiency. the stock cams will stop making power around 6500 rpms, if you have a built motor you can upgrade your valvtrain and continue to make power well beyond that, not only that but a boosted motors volumetric efficiency will go up when it breaths better

that's not entirely true either, though...

saying that the cams choke out the motor at at 20psi is just ridiculous. yes, they might be restricting a decent amount of airflow, but are by no means choking your motor. pushing the ct26 to 20psi is choking it because the air is so hot, and the stock intercooler isn't efficient enough to cool it down to make good power out of it.

slap on an upgraded ct26 (say a 57 or 60 trim) and crank it to 20psi. i guarantee you'll make gobs more power. and again, the cams might be limiting airflow, but are by no means choking the motor...

look at malloynx, isn't he on stock cams? he's pushing over 20psi, and made over 500rwhp on the stock cams and an upgraded turbo... (if i remember right)

-shaeff

 

[Doward]

It's not a matter of the cams 'choking' the motor.

The camshafts simply aren't as efficient as a better set would be.

I'd love to see Malloynx swap over to a set of the BC camshafts. 500rwhp would be no problem at all - he'd probably be pushing more like 600!

 

[IJ.]

I run these and they make good power to 8000 but the turbo I'm using runs out of breath on a 3.0 once you get to around the 28 psi mark and 7500.

In hindsight I should have gone for a little more life and duration but as this was the first time I've cammed a 7M I went a little conservative in case it hurt drivability.
(My car is 5 speed I think this grind would work well with an Auto and maybe some more stall)

Wade Cams .351"/9mm lift 280 degrees duration 226@50thou

 

[89supturbo]

alright so the use of the word choking is a bit of an exageration but cams will make a big difference, talk to some ls-1 guys many of them have upgraded cams and the extra air flow creates big power gains for them on NA motors, the fact that our cars have a turbo to force more air into the engine will amplify the effect, cams will make power for you, its not voodoo magic its just known fact. also when your running 93 octane fuel you can only boost just so high, u cant just keep adding boost and make more power so if your serious about street competition you have to make more power at the same boost and cams are an exelent way to do that