MickyG's MX-73 to 7M-GE Swap

mickyg

7MGE MX-73
Sep 15, 2005
406
0
0
46
Melbourne AU
I thought I'd start compiling some things for my upcoming 7M swap for the Cressida. This has been a goal of mine since I bought the car about 2 years ago, but I never thought I'd actually be able to make it happen!

I've been jealous of my bro and dad for years now because they had the time and money to spend on their Supras, and I had to be practical and stick with my Sentras (88 then 94 - hey I was a college kid on a budget)! When I relocated to Australia and had the chance to start over, I knew the Cressida was the closest thing to a Supra that I'd likely be able to get (both based on budget and practicality). I didn't go for the MX-83 due to price and so that left the '73.

For a bit of background, my 5M is pretty tired (it's got at least 230,000km/143000miles on and I don't know if that's accurate). It's had a new headgasket last year as a preventative thing, numerous oil leaks that I'm only just beginning to catch up with, about the noisiest valve train on the planet, not the best fuel economy, and sufficient but definitely not impressive power.

What I hope to gain from the 7M is fairly simple. More power obviously, but hopefully more responsive power (better torque spread) as well as slightly more efficiency. The 5M fires all 6 injectors simultaneously, whereas the 7M system fires 2 at a time. That may not directly translate to more efficiency, but it certainly can't hurt! There's also the newer (and possibly smarter) electronics and a freer flowing head.

Now, here's where things get a bit fishy. I am on a seriously tight budget. That means I'm going to make the most of what I currently have and wait to do anything "special" somewhere down the track. That means I'm planning to keep my auto transmission and I've got no plans to go turbo (yet...:naughty: ). As far as I know, A 7M in front of a stock A43DE is something no one's ever done. And there may be a reason for that!

I'll be breaking this thread up into 3 "phases" to help me and anyone else looking at the thread. Phase 1 will be planning, 2 will be modifying/rebuilding, 3 will be fitting/testing.

I'm still at Phase 1 and will be for quite some time. The engine will be here by the end of the week (Thanks IJ!!!) but there's lots to do before it gets anywhere near the engine bay in the Cressida!

Phase 2 will focus on putting phase 1 into practice. That means tearing down the donor engine and rebuilding anything that needs it. I'll also spend a fair bit of time attempting to modify parts and wiring to accomodate the '73 chassis/wiring.

Phase 3 will be installing the new engine and any final tweaking to get it to work correctly.

This already too long so I'll stop here and post a bit more later...
 
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mickyg

7MGE MX-73
Sep 15, 2005
406
0
0
46
Melbourne AU
Phase 1 - Planning

I have found numerous resources on GTE swaps into the '73 but nothing on a GE swap. I know this will probably be less complicated as a result but there will be no "step by step" guide for this. As a result, careful planning is in order. There are numerous differences between the 5M and 7M motors and the most obvious and potentially frustrating for a swap are:

- Accessory layout
- Electrical differences
- Wiring/cooling/vacuum line routing
- Oil Sump/Pump differences (This is a Supra 7M, not a Cressida one)

Beyond that, there's basically nothing else to be afraid of! My understanding is that the mounts line up perfectly and it's a bolt in affair.

So far, I've addressed the above issues as follows (feel free to chime in if you've got better ideas or comments on any of this):

- Accessory layout

The power steering pump on a 5M sits right where the 7M's top coolant hose fitting is, as well as where the 7M distributor sits. The 7M shifts the PS pump down to the bottom part of the engine and moves the reservoir to a permanent position on the side of the engine bay. My main concerns here are whether I can make the stock hoses/piping reach and of course obtaining the reservoir/PS pump (I don't know if it's on the donor motor yet).

The alternator on the 5M sits where the PS pump on the 7M is. The 7M shifts it over to the right upper side of the engine (where the 5M's distributor/coolant hose fitting is). At the very least, this will mean lengthening the stock electrical connections to the alt (and should be fairly trivial).

I think the A/C compressor is the only thing that is in the same place on both engines and I plan to re-use mine so I don't have to recharge the system (if anyone knows why that wouldn't be possible, let me know!).

Electrical Differences

Besides the aforementioned alternator connections, I'm sure there are other oddities to deal with. The most obvious are ECU. For that I plan to use an NA ECU (Preferably an auto one, provided there's a difference between that and a manual one). That should sort out 90% of my wiring issues, with the remaining 10% dedicated to the dash/chassis and auto ECT connections (yes, the A43DE has an ECT, or so I'm told). I may find that 10% consuming a whole lot of hours though! If anyone's got any first hand experience with this, again, let me know!

Wiring/Cooling/Vacuum Line Routing

In addition to the rerouting of the alternator leads, I'll also need to find a way to integrate the stock engine bay mounted fusebox/relay/diagnostic point stuff. I'm sure there are other wiring issues as well, but this springs to mind first.

The 5M radiator has the same outlet position as the 7M so using the 7M's hoses should be no real issue. What does concern me is whether using the 5M rad is a good idea. Mine's fine and I would be happy to reuse it, provided it's safe to do so. I have no idea what the cooling efficiency is between the 5M and 7M. I may have to rethink that one...

Vacuum stuff doesn't concern me too much at this point. I would like to integrate the 7M cruise stuff into this build if possible though.

- Oil Sump/Pump Differences

I'm using a Supra 7M so it's mid sump. I have a donor 5M sump and oil pump that I hope will be suitable. Can anyone confirm that the 5M pump and 7M Cressida pump are the same? The assumption at this point is that they are and that this will be a very trivial issue.

I'm sure there'll be lots more to add to this over the next few weeks. Feel free to add thoughts/suggestions/comments whatever.
 

mickyg

7MGE MX-73
Sep 15, 2005
406
0
0
46
Melbourne AU
BosoMKII said:
Big projects are fun, so long as you take your time. Good luck! Keep us posted.
Thanks! I'm following your build rather closely as it's about the closest thing to what I'm planning to do as I've seen so far!
 

mickyg

7MGE MX-73
Sep 15, 2005
406
0
0
46
Melbourne AU
I forgot another one of my major goals in all this:

Do as much work with the engine outside the car as possible so that I can have as little downtime during the swap as possible. Remember, this is my daily driver here!
 

mickyg

7MGE MX-73
Sep 15, 2005
406
0
0
46
Melbourne AU
I saw that Allan, thanks for the tip! ;)

At this point though, I'm on a seriously tight budget. Turbo goodness will have to wait quite a while I'm afraid.
 

mickyg

7MGE MX-73
Sep 15, 2005
406
0
0
46
Melbourne AU
And now, to ripoff IJ's methods of organising threads:

Today:

Picked up a rental engine hoist to unload the motor. IJ is paying me a visit tonight with the goodies! :runaway:

And in case anyone's wondering, pics will accompany this thread very soon!
 

mickyg

7MGE MX-73
Sep 15, 2005
406
0
0
46
Melbourne AU
Well that, and I need some decent pics to post first. I don't think everyone wants to see an empty engine stand and hoist sitting in the corner of my garage!
 

IHI-RHC7

"The Boss"
Apr 1, 2005
1,310
0
0
40
Oregon
Hey there Bro, I don't have money! ;)
You're forgetting that I got my supra for about 1/7th the price of your cressy.
Anywho, wich to have a chat on msn?
 

mickyg

7MGE MX-73
Sep 15, 2005
406
0
0
46
Melbourne AU
Fair call! That should read "my dad had the time and money and my bro was lucky enough to live close by to him and enjoy some of the benefits!"

Being on the other side of the planet sorta puts a damper on joining in on the fun though. :)
 

mickyg

7MGE MX-73
Sep 15, 2005
406
0
0
46
Melbourne AU
Lastnight:

Ian came by to deliver the new toy! Had a nice evening catching up. Can't thank you enough for this new project Ian!

Looks like I'll have my hands full for a while (for phase 1 especially).

Here's some pics:

The Cressida and 4 sides of the engine (yes, those are wrenches in the stand - it's called "improvised spacers")
 

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miggles

i wasnt speeding officer
Jun 3, 2005
526
0
0
47
perth West Australia
hey mickeyg, my mate and i have completed a 7mgt swap into a 85cressy. (just need to get engineered and rego'd)

the aircon brackets are different on 7m's and 5m's also the hose connections where they bolt into the compressor are different.

The engine mounts use the forward set of bolt holes (compared to the 89+ mounts on supras) so you can use the 86.5 square mounts onto the cressy Xmember.

Alt you just extend wires like you mentioned

Rad needs to get pushed forwards about 1-2cm's for the fan to have clearance or it hits the rad/shroud. Mates dad bent some of the rad support under itself so the rad can sit slightly forwards.

tacho needs tinkering with to get it to work.

the tailshaft uses the supra front section and cressy rear section (we used the a340e)

powersteering pump we undid from the cressida and put in the 7m's one.

As for oilpump we used the 5m pump and sump. The dipstick needs to go in the front blanked off hole in the 7m (same as where it is in the 5m) due to the sump becoming a front sump.

the electrics inthe enginebay just needed 1 plug to get repinned. Ask around for cruzida on the aussie forums (toymods, cressida forums) as he come over and repinned,wired the motor for us. andrewferres@hotmail.com
he is the man. he got a lex v8 in his 89/90shape cressy. had a w58 but swapped it back to auto.

most of all good luck and enjoy the squating of the cressy as you put your boot into it rofl.along with the rollypolly boat ride hehe.
 

mickyg

7MGE MX-73
Sep 15, 2005
406
0
0
46
Melbourne AU
Thanks for all the details Mik!

There's a few things here I really want to address early on so I know what I'm getting into!

Firstly, this is an NA swap so a lot of what you had to do, I get to dodge! But not all of it...

miggles said:
the aircon brackets are different on 7m's and 5m's also the hose connections where they bolt into the compressor are different.
Does this mean I could use my existing 5m compressor/bracket? That was my plan all along, so I suppose I should look at that a bit closer

miggles said:
The engine mounts use the forward set of bolt holes (compared to the 89+ mounts on supras) so you can use the 86.5 square mounts onto the cressy Xmember.
I had a look at this tonight and can verify that completely. However, it looks as if I can use my 5m mounts without any issues. I still don't know what year this engine is but the mounts are definitely square.

miggles said:
Rad needs to get pushed forwards about 1-2cm's for the fan to have clearance or it hits the rad/shroud.
I measured this and found the pump to clutch mounting plate to be only a cm or so farther out from the engine than the 5m. I'm planning to use the existing 5m clutch/fan and it looks like there's about 15mm clearance from fan to shroud in the current 5m arrangment. That should give me a bit to play with. Were you referring to the 7m fan/clutch?

miggles said:
tacho needs tinkering with to get it to work.
Only if I'm going GTE though, if I understand correctly.

miggles said:
the tailshaft uses the supra front section and cressy rear section (we used the a340e)
I'll be using the existing A43D in my car, so no modifications necessary. However, I've got no idea how long that'll last as it's probably not designed for the increased power of the 3 litre motor. Definite food for though if I go A340 at some point!

miggles said:
powersteering pump we undid from the cressida and put in the 7m's one.
How did you relocate the reservoir? It looks like it just unbolts from the pump but I'm curious about your mounting arrangement.

miggles said:
As for oilpump we used the 5m pump and sump. The dipstick needs to go in the front blanked off hole in the 7m (same as where it is in the 5m) due to the sump becoming a front sump.
I've already obtained pump/sump from an old 5m Soarer so this should be no biggie. What worries me though is the dipstick. The 7m does indeed have a blank there but I've got no real method of drilling the hole. I've got a drill press but there's no way the block will fit under it and I would NOT trust that to my hand drill! How'd you get yours done?

That's all for now. If you've got any other thoughts on the above, or anything else, let me know. Thanks again for the advice!
 

miggles

i wasnt speeding officer
Jun 3, 2005
526
0
0
47
perth West Australia
Does this mean I could use my existing 5m compressor/bracket? That was my plan all along, so I suppose I should look at that a bit closer
There is one rear mounting point on the ac bracket that is thinner on the 7m compared to the 5m. The plan was to use the 5m compressor but something happend and as of yet we still have no aircon.

I measured this and found the pump to clutch mounting plate to be only a cm or so farther out from the engine than the 5m. I'm planning to use the existing 5m clutch/fan and it looks like there's about 15mm clearance from fan to shroud in the current 5m arrangment. That should give me a bit to play with. Were you referring to the 7m fan/clutch?
We used the 7m water pump/clutch with the 5m fan. Our only concern was the fan flexing forwards and hitting the rad.

Only if I'm going GTE though, if I understand correctly.
I thought you were goin GTE :icon_razz I still reccon you should try to get the GTE in there to help stir up the commadore/falcon :naughty:

How did you relocate the reservoir? It looks like it just unbolts from the pump but I'm curious about your mounting arrangement.
We used the 7m ps pump and reservoir. Just used the hoses (cant remember if it was a combination of 5m,7m or existing 5m) and bolted it up.

I've already obtained pump/sump from an old 5m Soarer so this should be no biggie. What worries me though is the dipstick. The 7m does indeed have a blank there but I've got no real method of drilling the hole. I've got a drill press but there's no way the block will fit under it and I would NOT trust that to my hand drill! How'd you get yours done?

I asked around on this forum and was told to drill slowly and put grease on the drillbit.
Best to do it when the sump is removed for the oilpump/sump exchange. Make up a shield so any swarf dosnt get flicked up into the rotating parts.
Mates dad did this. Only problem is the accordian hose is ontop of the new dipstick so its a real pita to get to. (wont be a problem as you dont want to go turbo) *hint hint* :biglaugh:
We kept the existing 7m dippy in there so we didnt have to blank off the hole.
 

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