MAP-ECU Tuning

kapkaniMD

New Member
Jan 28, 2007
93
0
0
Tampa, FL
tubbie said:
From what I remember, the halmeter is just another light show meter, so please do some research on that a/f meter before trusting it.

well this is what came with the car, and I read a little about it, but they dont make it anymore, the cool thing about it was it came with its own O2 sensor and gets its reading from it

I will see if i can analyze the pop and update you, I tried adding fuel to the 550cc map and i tried starting it with the ecu reset, but never got it to work, its been sitting a couple of days so i am going to try it again and see
 

kapkaniMD

New Member
Jan 28, 2007
93
0
0
Tampa, FL
OK UPDATE: The car started a while back and has been running rather good (well good for the car) and like I said I was running the car without boost and the wastegate wide open. So I decided it was finally time to start boosting (the motor has just been rebuilt), After hooking up the wastegate arm and adding in the boost controller, we went to start the car up and it won't start. The motor turns and it fires but just wont run, I am not sure if its the map thats on it (the 7mgte550cc) or something else I dont know of, again the only difference is I am using a larger than factory turbo (Turbonetics 62-1) I need to know if I should try adding or removing more fuel based on the larger turbo??? Once it starts I can take over but I need to get it started
 

Supracentral

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
10,542
10
36
The size of your turbo shouldn't affect the way the car runs when it's not under boost. The same map that will idle a CT-26 would idle a car with a T-88.

I'd suspect that something else got messed up while you were hooking up the WG and BC.
 

kapkaniMD

New Member
Jan 28, 2007
93
0
0
Tampa, FL
Supracentral said:
The size of your turbo shouldn't affect the way the car runs when it's not under boost. The same map that will idle a CT-26 would idle a car with a T-88.

I'd suspect that something else got messed up while you were hooking up the WG and BC.

I still cant figure it out, the day started with the car starting right up no problem (not to mention it has been starting right up for over a week), and I pulled it into the garage, All that was done was separating the vacuum hose b/n the turbo and wastegate and connecting it to the boost controller and simply attaching the wategate rod to its little nipple thing. After that I tried starting it and nothing........ any ideas???? :icon_conf :1zhelp:
 

Supracentral

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
10,542
10
36
kapkaniMD said:
I still cant figure it out, the day started with the car starting right up no problem (not to mention it has been starting right up for over a week), and I pulled it into the garage, All that was done was separating the vacuum hose b/n the turbo and wastegate and connecting it to the boost controller and simply attaching the wategate rod to its little nipple thing. After that I tried starting it and nothing........ any ideas???? :icon_conf :1zhelp:

Honestly, no.

But here, try this - put it back the way it was and see if the issue goes away. If it does, we'll figure it out from there.
 

kapkaniMD

New Member
Jan 28, 2007
93
0
0
Tampa, FL
Supracentral said:
Honestly, no.

But here, try this - put it back the way it was and see if the issue goes away. If it does, we'll figure it out from there.


I tried that as well and still wont start, it doesnt make any sense, the engine turns and will even putter like it wants to start but just wont turn over...
 

kapkaniMD

New Member
Jan 28, 2007
93
0
0
Tampa, FL
OK, finally getting somewhere, the car now starts (seems to be a problem with the spark plugs getting alot of burnt oil on them, but oh well) for the first time since the new turbo the car is getting boost, I started it off at 10lbs but I think I might lower it for now. Anyways, when the car is stopped and it is redlined the turbo spools, but with no boost, and you get a large cloud of smoke during the spool (4k-7k) and also the a/f guage plummeted to lean during the smoke. The car boosted fine on the road the first day every time. Today I took it out and it boosted a couple of times and then when I went WOT as soon as it hit 4k the power would just die and it wouldnt go any higher, sometimes the car would even shut off completely. That happened like every other attempt at boost. I am finally noticing today a pretty decent oil leak I believe coming from the pan gasket, but I have to check it better before I know for sure. DOES anyone know what would cause it to not boost, again I am using the 7mgte550cc map, but am using a lot larger turbo. THanks guys
 

F_T_F

C2H5OH
Nov 12, 2006
255
0
0
fort fun, colorado
im having a slight issue with my car which has a Map-Ecu in it. the car at idle stalling out and idling really low at 500 RPM's or lower. is does it sporadically cant pin down any real thing that is related to it. i have noticed that if i (at idle) floor the gas and rev it to about 4000 or higher RPM's it seems fix the problem at least temporarily. i just replaced the TPS with a brand new unit from the dealer and now im leaning more towards the MAP-ECU being the problem. Maybe an issuer with the throttle position settings. can anyone help me in a sense walk me through how i can tweak the settings on the MAP-ECU i would like to fix it my self.
 
Totally understand the vf portion of the thread except how does the ecu correct for feul trim if their is no 02 sensor to read.....i mean the ecu must need some kind of way to monitor actaul afr in order to adjust trim to get a desired afr at any particular point in the map....just curious if anyone knows anything on how the ecu perceives afr with no factory o2 sensor hooked up. Im just about to wire in my mapecu3-very large turbo build....now has timing control if needed-anything i should know about changing timing on a 7m?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

charman02

Cruiser
Oct 14, 2008
121
0
0
Fresno
Supracentral;545583 said:
The map is pretty easy to understand. It's correction, by RPM @ a specific boost level:

mapecu-basic1.jpg


So for example, if you want to see the value used at a 4500 RPM @ 10 PSI, you'd look here:

mapecu-basic2.jpg


If you watch a live pull, where it shows you which square it's using, you'll see a pattern like this, for example:

mapecu-tune1.jpg


If those are the cells you are hitting at this specific boost level (10 psi in this case) you only worry about changing those cells to smooth out your A/F curve.

There are also areas of the map you will NEVER use. For example if your turbo can't make boost under 2000 rpm, the cells crossed out below would never be used:

mapecu-tune2.jpg


Another way you can view the map is graphically. One thing that is important is that it is smooth looking. If there are large changes between cells, you've got the tune wrong an the TCCS will fight you on it. If you have "follow" turned on while you make a pull, you'll be able to see which cells it is using in this view as well:

mapecu3.jpg


Tuning with a MAP-ECU takes a lot more finesse than with other systems. You kind of have to have a knack for it. Some people have an easy time, others struggle. I will forewarn you though that tuning a karmann vortex car (ie. - MKIII Supra) on one if these is a real pain in the ass. Cars with AFM's (ie - MKIV Supra) are a lot easier.

One thing that will really mess you up is Vf. If you don't tune for Vf you are toast. The ECU will keep tuning out your changes. This goes for ANY piggyback, not just the map-ecu.

By using a system called LEARNED VALUE {Vf} or the FUEL TRIM correction system. The TCCS uses its best guess or BASIC FUEL CALCULATION plus a +/- 40% floating correction factor determined by the LEARNED VALUE Vf system to give the engine the correct required amount of fuel under all conditions.

This + or - correction amount is controlled by an active control system in the TCCS called the LEARNED VALUE SYSTEM, Vf fuel trim. Under this system the TCCS uses two types of fuel trims called the long and short fuel trims.

The LEARNED VALUE Vf system is used by the TCCS during both open and closed loop operation to fine tune the fuel control to the engine in relation to engine wear, sensor shift and other problems such as combustion leaks and intake air leaks.

This long and short fuel trim is an automatic on the fly correction system that uses the engines sensors to add or subtract fuel from the BASIC FUEL CALCULATION to keep the fuel mixture going out the tail pipe on target under the fast and slow changing engine conditions, examples: Hot, Cold, idling, redline, wear in cylinders and head, or any number of engine operation conditions.

The current amount of fuel correction the long and short fuel trims systems are adding or decreasing from the BASIC FUEL CALCULATION can be read by reading the voltage coming out of the TCCS's Vf data output terminal in the diagnostics connector under the hood of the Supra. The Vf line feeds five stepped voltage values of 0,1.25, 2.5, 3.75, 5.0 volts. Each step in voltage is an indication of the amount of fuel trim to the BASIC FUEL CALCULATION that is taking place. The TCCS will always output one of the five voltages to the Vf terminal in the diagnostics connector under the hood. The voltage is measured at anytime between the E1 and Vf pins in the diagnostics connector when E1 and T1 are not shorted. Remember that the voltages are stepped in 5 levels as mentioned above! Depending on your car you may see 3.5 volts rather than 3.75 volts, this is normal and you can ignore the difference in the voltages.

The whole goal is to tune the system so that the Vf data is normal while getting the car to do what you want it to.

No mater what you set any piggyback to in closed loop mode the ECU will compensate back to 14.7 until you max out the ECU's capabilities. The best bet is to tune everything under 4000 rpm to Vf and then use the piggyback after 4000 RPM in open loop to get the right tune.

Since you are tuning over 4K and only at boost, you pretty much will wind up doing most of your tuning in the area indicated below:

mapecu-tune3.jpg


It really is best left to someone with a lot of experience in it. That goes for the S-AFC as well. If the guy tuning your car isn't working with Vf, he doesn't know what he's doing and you should find someone else. Any idiot can get a car to run right with a S-AFC for a short time. Getting it running correctly in the long term is far more difficult.

Tread very lightly until you learn quite a bit about the way things work. Everything you need to know is on this site. And the people who wrote the FAQ's and tech-tips you find around the Internet for this car are (for the most part) on this site as well.

Start reading, and when you get stuck, start asking questions. If you really want to do this yourself, and to do it correctly and safely, you need to learn a LOT before touching a single setting.

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I just bought a Supra that has MAPECU. It seems it was not tuned with Vf in mind. Before I start getting into it, what does those numbers in the fuel table represent? I know wherever it is hightlighted, it's where the vehicle is currently running at according to rpm and psi, but not sure what the actual number represent, afr? Air flow rate? Please help me understand this. Thx