Long or short block???

sean210

Father to Be
Nov 26, 2007
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indianapolis
How can I tell which one I have?
Whats the difference?
Is one better then the other?

I'm a noob?
tried to search and didnt find nothing.
 

suprahero

naughty by nature
Staff member
Aug 26, 2005
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Long block means it comes with everything on it, all accessories etc.

short block is only the block with internals, ie. pistons, rings, crank......etc.
 

Supracentral

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
10,542
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sean210;1289942 said:
How can I tell which one I have?
Whats the difference?
Is one better then the other?

LOL!

A short block is just the block, pistons & rods. (Pretty much everything below the head gasket and above the oil pan gasket).

A long block is the above but with a cylinder head (sometimes intake and accessories as well).

It's not two different kinds of motors. :)

sean210;1289942 said:
I'm a noob?
tried to search and didnt find nothing.

The only dumb question is the one you don't ask.

It's cool man, we all have to learn someplace.
 

sean210

Father to Be
Nov 26, 2007
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indianapolis
I see.
I guess I have a short block to start my build with.
I was thinkin it was somethin like the small and big block v8's.:nono:
 

suprarx7nut

YotaMD.com author
Nov 10, 2006
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Arizona
www.supramania.com
sean210;1289949 said:
I see.
I guess I have a short block to start my build with.
I was thinkin it was somethin like the small and big block v8's.:nono:

Very different nomenclatures there. Small vs. big block v8's are more directly named. I'm by no means an expert on muscle cars or old domestic motors, but as I understand big block v8's are larger motors, small block v8's are smaller. (not sure whether it is referring to the outer casting of the block or displacement)

I'll admit I had to look up the "longblock vs shortblock" terms when I joined this forum a while back. :)
 

dumbo

Supramania Contributor
Jul 16, 2008
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suprarx7nut;1290006 said:
Very different nomenclatures there. Small vs. big block v8's are more directly named. I'm by no means an expert on muscle cars or old domestic motors, but as I understand big block v8's are larger motors, small block v8's are smaller. (not sure whether it is referring to the outer casting of the block or displacement)

I'll admit I had to look up the "longblock vs shortblock" terms when I joined this forum a while back. :)

I am no expert on muscle cars either, but small blocks(gm) are a type of motor, 267, 305, 350's, 400 and theres more, and big blocks are a different type
all together 454's, 502s ect.

but its not just the "displacement" that makes them big/small
 

Supracentral

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
10,542
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Most domestic manufacturers back in the muscle car era made two different blocks. The small block and the big block. Both were generally available with different bores & strokes to generate different engine displacement.

Therefore from Chevrolet you could get a small block with a 265, 283, 302, 307, 327, 350 or 400 cu in displacement, all with the same external block dimensions. In later years they came up with some other oddballs like the 262 and 305 cu in variants.

In the big blocks you could get a 349, 409, 402, 427, 454, 502 and 572 cu in motor, all with the same external block dimensions.

Notice that there's some overlap too. You could have a 400 cu in smallblock (which looks no bigger than a 283) parked next to a 349 big block and you'd swear the 349 was huge compared to the 400. It wasn't uncommon to see a 427 with hydraulic lifters powering a station wagon and then the same motor with a huge cam and solid lifters powering a COPO Camaro. One ran as smooth as an electric motor, the other idled like a funny car.

There are variants within each class like 4-bolt main and 2-bolt main motors. The 4-bolt being more desirable for making big power.

Also, the GM LT & LS motors are not members of either family. While the LT motors are based off the small block, they have little in common with then and most parts are not interchangeable. The LS series motors are a completely new design and are radically different from the old small block & big block. Most production motors today would be considered "small block" due to the package size and cu in displacement.

Can you tell I'm an old GM motorhead? :) That about covers it for Chevrolet. Most GM's are similar although there are some odd variations like the 90 degree V8 Buick motors...

Someone else will have to tell you about the Ford crap. :icon_razz
 

Poodles

I play with fire
Jul 22, 2006
16,757
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Yep, small block and big block motors are different sizes and designs (heads are obvious with the odd valve and rocker setup on the big blocks).

But yes, long block is with the head, short block is just the bottom end. Neither comes with accessories.
 

Supracentral

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
10,542
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bluepearl;1290076 said:
348/409 very differant from 396/402/427/454 family.

Yea, the generations are different, but I thought I was getting long winded enough. 99% of these guys will never touch a GM. ;)
 

sean210

Father to Be
Nov 26, 2007
315
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indianapolis
Wow learned more on this thread then I did in automotive class.

My dad brought up a good question when we were tearin my engine
apart.

How are the 7m-gte's balanced?
 

sean210

Father to Be
Nov 26, 2007
315
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0
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indianapolis
Thought so just wasnt sure.
I will admit that I was pretty confused when i got to lookin at
the crank pulley and it looked nothin like a harmonic balancer.
 

Poodles

I play with fire
Jul 22, 2006
16,757
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Fort Worth, TX
It is, it's just that there aren't nearly the levels of harmonics in a straight six than there are in a V6...

It's a "perfect" design, as is a V12...

There is more info about balancing on here, just search.
 

dumbo

Supramania Contributor
Jul 16, 2008
1,911
0
0
Albera, Too Far North
Supracentral;1290052 said:
Most domestic manufacturers back in the muscle car era made two different blocks. The small block and the big block. Both were generally available with different bores & strokes to generate different engine displacement.

Therefore from Chevrolet you could get a small block with a 265, 283, 302, 307, 327, 350 or 400 cu in displacement, all with the same external block dimensions. In later years they came up with some other oddballs like the 262 and 305 cu in variants.

In the big blocks you could get a 349, 409, 402, 427, 454, 502 and 572 cu in motor, all with the same external block dimensions.

Notice that there's some overlap too. You could have a 400 cu in smallblock (which looks no bigger than a 283) parked next to a 349 big block and you'd swear the 349 was huge compared to the 400. It wasn't uncommon to see a 427 with hydraulic lifters powering a station wagon and then the same motor with a huge cam and solid lifters powering a COPO Camaro. One ran as smooth as an electric motor, the other idled like a funny car.

There are variants within each class like 4-bolt main and 2-bolt main motors. The 4-bolt being more desirable for making big power.

Also, the GM LT & LS motors are not members of either family. While the LT motors are based off the small block, they have little in common with then and most parts are not interchangeable. The LS series motors are a completely new design and are radically different from the old small block & big block. Most production motors today would be considered "small block" due to the package size and cu in displacement.

Can you tell I'm an old GM motorhead? :) That about covers it for Chevrolet. Most GM's are similar although there are some odd variations like the 90 degree V8 Buick motors...

Someone else will have to tell you about the Ford crap. :icon_razz


No 267 or 305? I was certain those two were small blocks.