Im Thinking Of Switching Oils And Weights

[SupaMan]

jdub i know ive knocked horns with you in the past saying how ill do as i believe and yadda yadda i took a short break from supramania on my own came back and after reading the oil section i feel the need to apolgize to you so im sorry for my ignorance. i also wanted to ask for advice ive been running royal purple 20w50 in my supra for good i dunno 10-12 months after switching from the prevouis owners pennzoil 15w40, I feel like my car is being held back by this heavier weight oil after reading some of your threads and driving the car its not how i remember it. I was thinking maybe 10w40 or somethin i dunno thats prolly still too thick, ive looked around for the german castrol i think it is and nobody seems to have it. one shop i called said they did have it until about a week ago and it wasnt being made anymore? what would you recommend brand and weight i know you like the 5w30's and stuff and castrol green or whatever it is (i keep forgetting its name) but im wondering what you think about royal purple and lucas and amsoil and such too.

 

[jdub]

Yeah...I remember that. I'll tell ya though, it takes a real man to realize what he's doing might not be the best. Good on ya

You are correct, the German Castrol has dried up...AutoZone stopped carrying it so it's almost impossible to get. That is too bad...prolly the best oil they had on the shelf. I guess sales didn't support having it in inventory.

That really leaves us with 3 readily available choices...these are in order of preference IMO:
- Red Line - all of their oils are ester base stock...can't get better than that. Also has a robust additive pack. The oils I would use:
5W-30...excellent cold flow characteristics, viscosity is right where it needs to be hot as well.
10W-40...actually a bit thinner than the 5W-40. Will still flow good cold (especially in a warm climate) and provide some additional viscosity for a motor with a lot of miles on the bearings.
Downside to Red Line? As an oil can't think of any...as for price, it's expensive.

- Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 - PAO/ester base stock...a bit thinner than Red Line 5W-30. Excellent add pack as well. I tried this oil a couple of years ago...my valve train was a little noisy using it (doesn't mean it will be noisy for you). Heads up, the Series XL oils are a Group III hydrocracked oil. What I don't like about this oil is the way they sell it...MLM FTL

- Royal Purple 5W-30 - primarily a PAO base stock with a healthy shot of ester. A bit thicker than Red Line 5W-30 hot, a bit thinner cold...these are good attributes. The downside to RP is the add pack...not as good as Red Line or Amsoil. I suppose this is due to RP's focus on racing...these oils typically do not have the level of additives you see in a street oil. This is also why you don't want to use RP's line of racing oils...they have even less additives.

Just about all PAO based oils use ester in their formulation as a seal conditioner. How much is the question.

You can run any of the above oils 8,000 miles easy between changes...it fact, changing it more often would be a waste of some very good oil. Just run a good filter (Wix or PureOne) and change the filter at the 4000 mile point and pour in enough oil to make up for the loss from the filter.

The rest of the oils you see on the shelf labeled as a "synthetic" are really hydrocracked dino oil...not that this is bad oil wise...I hate paying the same price and not get a true syn oil. These are the Group III oils...Pennzoil Platinum is the best IMO in this group. Either the 5W-30 or 10W-30 would be excellent choices...the 5W-30 has one of the best cold flow characteristics I've seen...even better than Red Line. This oil would make a 7M very happy

 

[jdub]

Heads up, the Series 2000 are the only pure syn oils Amsoil sells. What I don't like about this oil is the way they sell it...MLM FTL

don't mean to hijack but since we are talking about switching oil. I use Amsoil 10w30 XLT synthetic oil and even called Amsoil tech to ask if this oil is good for turbocharged engine and was told so that it is. So is this a true syn oil? If not, will switching to RP 5w30 hurt my engine since I already started using Amsoil? I found out advanced auto parts now cary a full load of RP 5w30.

The Amsoil XL series of oils are Group III base stock...the 10W-30 you are using will not hurt your motor, it's a very good oil on par with or better than Mobil 1, Castrol SynTec, Valvoline SynPower, etc. Since it's not a Group IV or V, by definition it is not a true synthetic oil...it's a long story, but basically US companies can market some Group III oils as "synthetic" due to a technicality in the way they are produced. They use "synthetic technology" in their production/formulation...personally I think this is BS. It ignores the base stock used in the oil and misleads the consumer....you gotta dig to get the facts.

IMO, the best oils for a turbo motor is a true syn oil. Having said that, Group III oils have come a long way...Pennzoil Platinum has taken the technology to a new level for hydrocracked base stock to the point there is little difference in between it an Group IV/V. Pennzoil Platinum is a superb oil that can easy go with the 8,000 mile OCI posted above...if it were me and it came to a choice between RP and Pennzoil Platinum, I would use the Pennzoil. In reality, any of the Group III "synthetic oils" can be used in a turbo motor and perform well without coking.

When talking about these oils, it boils down to price. Red Line is expensive due to it's ester base stock. Amsoil Series 2000 is priced a bit better, but you have to work through their MLM dealer network. RP is slanted more toward racing...the additive pack is not a good as a result. Pennzoil Platinum is not a Group IV or V synthetic. My point is you can go with any of these (if you stick to a 0W, 5W, or 10W-30) and the motor will run as designed with no problems. Just use a good filter

 

[jdub]

i can get amsoil my friends brother sells it now and thats what hes been running in his bike and such. so basicly its a throw up between redline 5w30 or 10w30 and amsoil 2000 0w30? Talking about oils scares me i get nightmares of rodknock and spinning bearings i dont have the money to buy a new motor so oil is my cheap insurance.

Thinking of a thicker oil as insurance is a very common misconception. In a 7M, the bearings were *designed* to use a viscosity in the 10-11 cst viscosity range at ops temp. All of the oils I mentioned will do that nicely...using a heavier oil actually restricts flow to the bearings. It will also cause decreased gas mileage due to the increased resistance of the oil flowing through the motor. Thinking the thicker oil is better comes from word of mouth, from a time where engines and oil were different animals. If you want to help your motor and keep bearing performance as designed...use a 30W multi-grade oil and keep the crankcase full. I run a quart over the full mark for that "cheap insurance" your thinking about

If your friend can get Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 at a good price for you, I'd give it a try. You may or my not get the valve train noise I mentioned earlier...it could very easily work well for you. If you can get Red Line 5W-30 at the same price, that would be my choice...the 100 deg C viscosity of this grade is almost identical to the 10W-30, but is thinner cold. If your motor has a lot of miles on it, Red line 10W-40 could work better for you. Check pricing on Pennzoil Platinum I mentioned as well...you won't go wrong using this oil either

 

[jdub]

im using the stock toyota filter right now for the 7m 1jz 2jz uz series yadda yadda yadda theres like 40 diffrent motors listed on the box i think i read somewhere that its a wix filter in toyota skin? i dunno how true that is but i just found redline oils online for 10 bucks more than what royal purple would be for a case of 12 so the question is which should i get? 10w40 because it might be happier in warmer weather which we're getting into now? its prolly gonna be a good 90-100 this year in florida its just starting and weve already been in the high 80's tipping 90's with 60-85% humidity. i heard napa is the only place to get the wix filters also. (that is if their not the same as the toyota filter i have)

This is a good read...Toyota filters are not as good as you may think...not near the quality of a Wix or PureOne
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42763

Wix = NAPA Gold...you can also get the Wix online at Rock Auto. PepBoys carries the PureOne. Either of these filters will perform well...the Wix does flow a bit better, but the PureOne will catch smaller particles. Really it's a toss up...with your concerns, I would use the Wix

How many miles do you have on the motor? Check locally for pricing too...shipping can kill ya on cases of oil.
BTW - I'm running German Castrol 0W-30 in Phoenix and ran it last summer...in 115 deg temps. Red Line 5W-30 will easily handle any outside temp you will see in FL

 

[jdub]

Supposedly the motor was rebuilt about 20k miles before i bought it ive put about 10-15k on it so 30-40k miles? If it was rebuilt. The block is painted like a ford blue so im assuming it was and the fact that ive bounced this motor off the limiter before numorous times by missing 3rd (i suck at driving:icon_conf ) and beating the shit out of it ill have to assume that its been rebuilt, If not im nearing the miles for BHG theres 151k on the clock. He said toyota rebuilt the motor but judging by the blue paint on the block id have to call BS. I was supposed to recive paperwork on this but the guy disappered off the face of the earth after i bought the car which is weird because he left some arab ID card in my glove box (diffrent story tho:biglaugh: ) I called the toyota dealer in new york that originaly sold the car and rebuilt the motor or so he said rebuilt it and they never called me back so i just assumed it was and forgot about it since ive had no troubles with it.

Hmmm...how's your oil pressure at idle and at 3000 rpm...both when the motor is warm?

The Red Line 10W-40 is thicker than what I would use, but it's not going to hurt your motor either....especially where you live. If the motor has 30-40K on it, the 5W-30 should be good, if not better, to use too. This one is going to come down to what you want to do...IMO, the 5W-30 would work well.

I will let you know one thing about the Red Line...ester is very good at cleaning out deposits in a motor. If some of those deposits are the only thing keeping your seals from leaking, guess what will happen...you will get seep around the seals if they are old. If your motor was re-built, this will not be a problem...ester is also a very good seal conditioner...it will cause seals to be pliable and will swell them slightly. Just want to give you a heads up so you don't fall for the "syn oil causes leaks" thing you might hear...it's not true either. Poor seals cause leaks

 

[jdub]

at idle its just under the 20 psi mark is what id assume itd be? its like halfway on top of the line halfway under it and at 3000rpm its just over the 40psi mark and it doesnt raise much more after that all the way to redline. sometimes itll almost touch the mark between 40 and 80psi but thats like if im 4500-5k and holding it there.

as of right now my oil level hasnt changed once in 10-11 months and yet to see 1 leak on my garage floor (its the only reason i keep the garage floor clean) im happy about that too but now im even more worried thatll start springing leaks when i switch and itll be somethin shitty like a front or rear main seal.

That is very good pressure...you will not have a problem switching to 5W-30. The only thing you may see is a drop in psi to 10 or so at idle and it will peak out at 50 psi or so at high rpm. This is a good thing...you will get max flow to your bearings...keep in mind higher pressure also means increased resistance to flow. The reason you don't see pressure above 40 psi at a 3000 rpm cruise is due to the cooler relief valve on the stock filter head. At ~40 psi, it opens and directs oil to the cooler, then to the pan...this is normal and the reason you won't see much above 40 psi oil pressure on any stock 7M filter/cooler set-up. The pressures you are seeing now is what I see using the GC 0W-30.

If your seals are not leaking *at all* now, you won't have any leaks with the 5W-30 either. Another myth floating around is thicker oil stops leaks...again, not true. It sounds like you have good seals, if anything the ester in Red Line will keep them that way for a long time.

 

[jdub]

sweet that makes me very happy. do the ge's have oil coolers too? if so i didnt know that at all alrighty then when i get some money ill deff be going with redline i might even go with redline in my tranny too ive heard that it causes the tranny to feel stiff because of it being to slippery for the syncros and ive experianced this i thought it was just my mind but my tranny felt alot more.........mechanical if you get me after i put the RP 75w90 uhhh max gear and i dont like it so what would you recommend from redline for the tranny ive heard the MT90 is good. (all this info ive heard from you in diffrent threads )

Nope...7M-GE motors do not have an oil cooler. Neither does the 1J motor and it needs one IMO due to the heat generated by the turbos.

Red Line 75W-90 is too slippery for the tranny...it contains friction modifiers meant for a LSD. MT-90 is a different anamial...no friction modifiers. It is an excellent choice for the R154. I am using straight Red Line 75W-90 in my TRD LSD...I was using Amsoil 75W-90 with their friction modifier additive and got some chatter (this LSD is tight). It almost completely stopped the chatter...I still some when cold...it goes away completely after warming up a couple of blocks of driving.

 

[jdub]

I use Mobil 1 filter BTW. Rather than switching to RP I can get this oil instead 100% Synthetic 10W-30 Motor Oil (ATM). Amsoil claims it is 100% synthetic, just called them to verify. I want to keep using 10w30 pure syn oil. With Florida summer will this oil keep my engine happy? What's your take on this?

Thanks.

You know what...you're right. Just did a little more research on the following Amsoil oils:
ASM 0W-20
ASL 5W-30
AFL 5W-40
ATM 10W-30
AMO 10W-40

All are a PAO Group IV synthetic. Looks like I had a senior moment over here
Thanks for the correction...Amsoil has changed their formulations recently and I didn't pay attention. It looks like Amsoil increased the amount of ester used in the formulation of some of their oils...especially the Series 2000 line.

The numbers on the ATM look good...a cold viscosity lower than Red Line...a 100 deg C viscosity that's almost exactly the same. However, the TSO 0W-30 is a better formulated oil with almost identical cold/hot viscosity as the ATM...it's also more expensive due to the increased use of ester it
The ATM should serve you well.

The Mobil filter is good...uses a synthetic media. Take a look at the Conventional Filter thread in this section stickys.

 

[jdub]

so the list goes redline 5w30 for the motor and MT-90 for my W58? would be the good choice with a wix filter

Those are all great choices

LMK how they work out for you...I'm especially interested in the oil pressures you see with the 5W-30.

 

[OneJSupra]

You know what...you're right. Just did a little more research on the following Amsoil oils:
ASM 0W-20
ASL 5W-30
AFL 5W-40
ATM 10W-30
AMO 10W-40

All are a PAO Group IV synthetic. Looks like I had a senior moment over here
Thanks for the correction...Amsoil has changed their formulations recently and I didn't pay attention. It looks like Amsoil increased the amount of ester used in the formulation of some of their oils...especially the Series 2000 line.

The numbers on the ATM look good...a cold viscosity lower than Red Line...a 100 deg C viscosity that's almost exactly the same. However, the TSO 0W-30 is a better formulated oil with almost identical cold/hot viscosity as the ATM...it's also more expensive due to the increased use of ester it
The ATM should serve you well.

The Mobil filter is good...uses a synthetic media. Take a look at the Conventional Filter thread in this section stickys.

JDub, you're welcome ... and I thank you for this very informative thread. Looks like I will be switching to Amsoil ATM in my next oil change.

 

[SupaMan]

Those are all great choices

LMK how they work out for you...I'm especially interested in the oil pressures you see with the 5W-30.

oh itll be awhile i only have 1500 or so miles on this royal purple so ill prolly have to dig this thread up and letcha know :biglaugh:

 

[jdub]

i also forgot to ask about diff oils (atleast i think i did i looked and cant find anywhere where i did) but im running max gear RP 75w90 in the diff and ive been really happy with it but if im gonna change to redline in motor and tranny i might as well look for a good redline fluid too right? so does redline make any good diff fluids i should look for?

Read post #8 again

To be honest, I wouldn't change the LSD oil unless it is causing you a problem or needs it (every 20,000 miles). If it's not broke, don't fix it

 

[SupaMan]

Read post #8 again

To be honest, I wouldn't change the LSD oil unless it is causing you a problem or needs it (every 20,000 miles). If it's not broke, don't fix it

ah yea i totaly over looked that :biglaugh: my eyes suck for reading they bounce all around and shit alrighty then i was just wondering about it while being bored.


thanks again for all your help.

 

[jdub]

great info!! can u tell me if there is any harm by trying various oils? such as brands and weights? I was using Mobil 1 religiously, and then tried Quaker State synthetic in another vehicle with noticeable improvements, so put some in the 7M and found a more responsive oil pressure.... also I have found that the heavier oils definitely quiet valvetrain noise, I don't have very high mileage, but I am now looking to use a premium oil after doing some mods. I can get Royal Purple and was wondering if it was a good choice?? I have also read elsewhere that Shell makes a premium synthetic oil possibly labled as Ultra? do you anything about this oil?? Also. would the PureOne be the best choice of filters? or is there a better filter yet?? Thanks in advance!

Read the stickys in this section and read this link...all of it:
http://63.240.161.99/motoroil/

Then read the other threads in this section
Royal Purple is one of the oils discussed...as are filters.

You're talking about Shell Helix Ultra...very expensive oil. Way out of my price range.

You can try various oils, but unless you do analysis (including a TBN) or tear it down, you really don't know what is going on inside your motor.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

You need to do a little "light reading"...I've spoon fed a lot of this info already

 

[jdub]

I dont mean to bring this thread back up from the dead, but i was driving the poopra today its probably 91-93 degrees outside. I was getting just over 40psi at about 2250ish RPM (inbetween the second little line and 3rd little line over 2k) and it stayed above 40psi the whole time to 4500 when i let off it was almost at the line between 40 and 80 this wasnt like a quick burst of power it was easing into it in 3rd and keeping it at about 60% throttle till 4500. I thought it was really good PSI so i thought id ask you! and also i noticed my temp gauge was at about 7 lines above cold the whole time went if i sat in traffic for awhile it would raise to about the 8th line and then stop.


I was also getting 14 volts! I feel really confident in my car now this is my 3rd running mk3 and i can honestly say its ran the coolest had the most oil pressure and never failed to get me anywhere.

just thought id share

That is excellent pressure...is that with RP or did you switch?

nah thats still with the 20w50 roya which is why i was so hyped about it :biglaugh:

 

[jdub]

JDub, don't mean to bug you again but I just had to ask this question. Went to Amsoil dealership and was trying to buy the ATM 10/30w. The guy mentioned to me that the AFL 5w40 would be best suited for turbocharged engine especially with the 93+ Florida summer weather. He said the extra weight should relieve the stress on the engine during the summer heat. Do you agree or there isn't any advantage compare to 10w30?

You're not bugging me

If you want to run a 40W, that would be a good choice. It's a little thicker in both cold and hot viscosity than the German Castrol, but not by a big amount. The GC falls almost dead middle (hot viscosity wise) between the ATM 10W-30 and the AFL 5W-40. The AFL is a "thin" 40W multigrade. If you think your bearings have a bit of wear or if you're not running an oil cooler on the 1J, I'd go for it.

Sounds great. Thanks again :icon_bigg

You're welcome...let me know how it works for ya

 

[jdub]

Question: I use Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic oil 15w50, whats your take on it with my motor and HP level? Thanks

Take a look at this thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41775

What have you done to the oil system and bearing clearance wise?

Actually, I do not know what my clearance are. The crank was just polished and balanced to for cleavite 77 bearings. I do believe the clearance's shouldn't have been altered.

So as of right now, I'm been using 15W50, 15 is low and 50 is high in "C". So my question based on what I read. Wouldn't 5w30 be a little on the low side? I'm talking about the "30", not the "5". Thanks

The thread I posted above answers that question nicely...read it carefully. Although, I'm not sure what you mean by "15 is low and 50 is high in "C". For 7M bearings at the mid to low clearance spec, a 30W multigrade is more than adequate and covers a very wide OAT range. Keep in mind flow to the bearings is very important...something a 15W or 20W-50 does not do very well, especially cold.

I see, so which brand of oil do you recommend other than the expensive redline. Would you prefer Mobile or Castrol fully synth? Or anything that's better but affordable? Thanks

Oh, nevermind on the "15" and "50". I read that the "15" mean operating range from 15 C to 50C, is that correct?

A little more "light reading":
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38811

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42763

And especially this:
http://63.240.161.99/motoroil/

I also like Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30...or, if you prefer a 40W multigrade, the 5W-40 Euro.

 

[jdub]

Jdub, I made the switch from Amsoil XL 10/30w to AFL 5/40w and wanted to let you know how it's working as far oil pressure. I was pretty impressed myself. I know this a good thing unless you say otherwise. :icon_bigg

before 3000rpm @ 40psi
after 2500rpm @ 45+ (almost 50) and above 3300rpm it goes to 60psi

before at idle (900rpm) @ 20psi
after at idle(900rpm) @ 30 psi

This oil pressure reading was done yesterday, drove the car at midday (almost 95 degree heat). This morning I check the oil level and it is at exactly at the "F" mark.

What do you think?

Those are really good pressures

Based on the before/after numbers, you could easily run the TSO 0W-30 or ASL 5W-30. You would have a bit less pressure, but you would have better flow...especially during the colder months on engine start. How's the valve train sound?

I would run one quart over the full mark...not going to hurt a thing and will provide a measure of "insurance" for oil slosh during turns/braking. The oil pan on these cars is not the best baffled ones out there.

Glad to know. I didn't notice any difference with the sound on the valve train. It isn't noisy before and after. Most mechanics would not recommend over filling the oil as they all CLAIM it would cause leaks and will wear the seals quicker? But I do hear it a lot on our cars either 7M and 1J engines running with one quart over have shown good results.

You would have to fill a 7M or 1J a LOT more than one quart over full to cause a problem. The seals will be fine and there will not be any leaks caused by this. The biggest benefit is reducing the possibility the motor (bearings) will be starved of oil if the pick-up gets uncovered

 

[jdub]

Jdub, I went to buy the Castro Plain GTX 5w-30 I recently switched to and found all new Hige Mileage this and thats but to regular GTX. I was thinking of switching to Chevron Brand, what are you thoughts on this brand 5w-30 and is their Synthetic any good? They also have a 5w-20. It's a very prevalent oil sold the same place I buy gas, I have an 89 N/A allot of miles but runs great. Any help and input will be greatly appreciated.

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/motoroils.shtm#csmo

Chevron Supreme Synthetic is a Group III base stock from what info I can dig up. Here is the data sheet:
https://www.cbest.chevron.com/generated/MSDS/PDS7674840.PDF

The 5W-30 has excellent cold flow viscosity, the 5W-20 is only slightly better...personally I would go with the 5W-30.

Pennzoil Platinum is a better Group III oil due to the add pack, but the Chevron is also an excellent oil that will serve you well (especially if it's cheap). IMO, it's on par (or better) than GTX. Should be able to go 5000 miles between changes with no problem.