i just don't know anymore

[rj_conerly]

so yesterday i pulled my starter and cleaneed the brushes. they didn't look the best but in my opionion i think they will do for now. i tested the starter using a 12v battery charger and it worked. anyway so i hooked it back up in the car today and nothing. when i tryed starting it thebattery was at about 12v and as soon as i turned the key to "start" the voltage dropped down to like 4v. and wehen i released the key the voltage went back up to 11.5 ish. so i just don't what to do anymore. i also pull the key in "on" and just hooked up a jumper wire from the battery to the starter where the relay hooks up and had the same results. everytime i try it i get more than one click and the starter sounds like its trying to turn and its just bogged down. so what do i do and what is wrong i need my car back.

 

[87tomanymods]

it sounds like your battery is cooked even if its new may have a dead cell try load testing it or maby a short to groung on the trigger or power wire use a diagnostic flow chart should help

 

[rj_conerly]

i'll get the battery tested tomorrow and tell you what happened. i'm also gonna get the stuff for the 30 amp relay upgrade. then we'll see what happens. thanks for the help hopefully it fixes it.

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

Sounds like the battery to me also, been there done that.

 

[dumbo]

was the battery charged/jumped?

 

[rj_conerly]

yeah it was jumped and when it was tested today it was bad even though the voltage in it stayed high enough the amps just weren't there but i got a new one toady adn a new starter bacause the old was nasty and the terminals had all kinds of pittings and crap on them and well you can't beat a life time garentee. so i got the new starter for 60 ish and dropped it in with the new battery and it took a while but when i turned the key the starter sounded like a champ and still no go. i pulled the plug off the ingnitor coil and it had spark and the fuel pump is new and i tested it last week. so when i briged the B+ and FP and try to start it took a minute and it came to life. so now i have to track down that problem the efi main and the fp relay are both brand new and so i don't know what to check next. i'm looking in the TRSM for ideas but i'm not really getting anywheres. so again i ask does anybody out there have an idea for me? and thanks again for the help it saved me alot of trips back and forth to autozone.

 

[Tire Shredder]

open the TSRM or wiring supplement, grab your multimeter and trace the circuit from the battery all the way back to the fuel pump at every fuse, connector or relay. If that when you lose your voltage signal, you know the section between the good voltage and no voltage is your issue.

 

[johnathan1]

it sounds like your battery is cooked even if its new may have a dead cell try load testing it or maby a short to groung on the trigger or power wire use a diagnostic flow chart should help

I'm sorry, but your avatar really bothers me.

 

[Ma70.Ent]

I'm sorry, but your avatar really bothers me.

And your signature bothers me. It's way too big.

Signature Rules: http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30732

 

[Bill UK]

When you say brushes are you referring to the solenoid contacts or do you really mean motor brushes? Useful Link.

 

[rj_conerly]

i was talking bout the contacts but i found the problem. its the circuit opening relay and so now i gotta get a new one. i found one at autozone but they gotta order it and its like 135 at a local dealership its like 125 and smae thing they have to order it so it looks like i'm outta a car for the next few days. does anybody know a site where i can get one cheaper and maybe a little quicker? i'm tired of not having my car and having to bum rides from people.

 

[Bill UK]

You can temporary bypass the relay by connecting a 20amp (approx) wire to the spade connector on the starter motor (this is the same place where the thin ignition wire connects to.) switch on the ignition and touch the other end of the wire on the positive battery terminal, the engine should start. Insulate the wire for future use. I did this on my UK Supra before fitting the relay mod.

 

[rj_conerly]

i just wound up getting a new starter so it starts but only if i do the B+ to FP jumper wire and so the starter is fine and i got the 30 amp relay intact and setup and working fine. its just the circuit opening relay to the fuel pump thats causing me trouble now.

 

[Bill UK]

I'm sure you probably know about this relay mod, but I'll post it just in case you need it.

The UK supras don’t have a relay, the wire from the ignition goes straight to the starter solenoid (or via an alarm if fitted or neutral switch on a auto), one of the problems is the gauge of the wire, although probably ok when new is too thin and over the years the copper wire deteriorates, resistance increases due to age and the constant heat changes. The same thing would apply US supras with the wire from the relay to the starter motor ,When the resistance is high the volts will drop. A permanent fix is to fit a 30 or 40amp 12v relay in the engine compartment. The thin wire from the ignition activates the coil in the relay which doesn’t need a lot of current. The switching part of the relay takes care of the amps required for the starter solenoid, The large wire going to the starter motor from the battery is the main power to turn over the starter motor once the solenoid is activated, this wire doesn’t need to be upgraded.
Instructions;
1. Disconnect the battery
2. Fix the relay to the bulkhead or somewhere covenant.
3. Remove the thin wire going to the starter motor and connect it to terminal # 86 on the new relay
4.Connect terminal # 85 to earth (negative) using a 20 amp ( awg 12 ) wire
At this stage you can check the relay is working by connecting the battery
and switching on the ignition as you would normally do to start the car. You should hear a click from the new relay but the starter will not turn over until you have competed the next steps.
5. Remember to disconnect the battery again
6. Connect a 20 amp wire to the spade terminal on the starter motor. (This is where the thin wire was once connected.) Connect the other end to # 87 on the relay.
7. Connect 20 amp wire straight to the battery and to # 30. connector on the relay. Job Done.

 

[johnathan1]

And your signature bothers me. It's way too big.

Signature Rules: http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30732

There now it follows your silly rules...looks great too. Are you happy Naggy McNagger?

 

[jetjock]

its just the circuit opening relay to the fuel pump thats causing me trouble now.

Uh, just bypass it until you get a new one. Problem solved. And make sure it's really bad and not the AFM switch that's the culprit...

 

[rj_conerly]

how do you suggest i bypass it and how do i test the afm to find out for sure?

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

how do you suggest i bypass it and how do i test the afm to find out for sure?

http://cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=FI&P=94

 

[jetjock]

Look here Sparky:

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TEWD/MK3/manual.aspx?S=Main&P=22

Unplug the relay and jumper pins 1 and 2. The fuel pump will now come on with the ignition but still be under ECU speed control, unlike what would happen if you used B+ and FP in the diag block.

The AFM switch can be tested with an ohmmeter. E1-FC should read open at rest and closed when the measuring plate is manually pushed in, as it would be if the engine was pulling air past it. Too bad the TSRM sucks at telling the whole story on that page but hey, you just learn to be smarter than it is....

 

[rj_conerly]

thank you so much i figured i could jumper it but i had no idea how many or which ones and i kinda don't want to mess anything else up i gotta get my ride up and running.